• FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      11611·
      5 days ago

      (in a similar vein)

      There is a third choice, where you say both are bad (ie. anarchists and pure marxists). But most people on lemmy.ML are Marxist Leninists (ML) who simp for authotarian states that call themselves socialist, like Russia, China, and North Korea.

        • FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          471·
          5 days ago

          Pure Marxist, Classical Marxist, Orthodox Marixst, whetever you want to call people who follow Marxism without Leninst or other authoritarian leaning interpretations.

          They are the only countries who resist the western bourgeoisie imperial order

          By trying to create their own imperial order. Nazi Germany also resisted the western imperialist order by trying to create their own imperial order.

          Your point about Russia not even pretending to be socialist is very much true. Which makes it more baffling that some people on ML support it. Do they just support anything that isn’t western even if it’s arguably worse?

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
            1725·
            5 days ago

            The number of Marxists who explicitly reject Lenin make up a tiny minority of the overall number of Marxists globally, and the ones who do so reside almost exclusively in Western Countries. Trying to uphold rejections of Lenin’s expansions on Marx’s original writings as “pure” doesn’t really fit with that.

            Secondly, no Marxist supports the Russian Federation, they see it as a horrible Capitalist regime that is temporarily working against the United States out of desparation. The concept of “critical support” is accepting that someone you entirely disagree with ideologically can be fighting a shared enemy, no more and no less.

            Do they just support anything that isn’t western even if it’s arguably worse?

            Critically support, somewhat, and the argument is that in a geopolitical context the US is more dangerous to Socialist movements than countries opposing US hegemony at the moment, and that once US hegemony is toppled these countries that once had “critical support” can be turned into the next enemy to be fought, assuming they don’t come to Socialism before then. The very fact that you say which is worse is “arguable” lends validity to the concept of critical support, as the alternative is further US domination of the Global South.

            Even then, Marxists are divided on Russia with respect to whether or not to even critically support it. The notion that there are Marxists that support the Russian Federation outright as an example of Marxism is fantasy.

            • obre@lemmy.world
              234·
              5 days ago

              Ah, yes, Lenin. Definitely the creator of Marxism-Leninism, no reason to talk about the other guy. Don’t look up anything about Stalin, he’s harder for tankies to whitewash, not that they won’t fall ass over teakettle trying. It’s their job after all.

              • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
                712·
                5 days ago

                Lenin created the theory, he didn’t call himself a “Marxist-Leninist” just like Marx didn’t call himself a “Marxist.” In the context of the comment I replied to, they specifically cited Orthodox Marxists, a fringe minority among Marxists that intentionally reject Lenin.

            • Zagorath@aussie.zoneEnglish
              55·
              4 days ago

              Ok, so if I’m understanding this correctly, you’re supportive of the actions of countries that oppress their own people (e.g. Russia’s anti-LGBT+ laws, China’s oppression of Uyghurs and Tibetans, etc.), aggressively invade other countries (as Russia is doing in Ukraine, as China sort of did with Hong Kong’s semi-independence and is threatening to do to Taiwan, not to mention their enforcement of their claims in Vietnamese and Filipino waters), without being supportive of the countries themselves. Because you think that those countries causing harm to the western world is likely to eventually lead to the west doing less harm to the developing world, and/or help accelerate the proletarian revolution in western countries?

              Is that a fair (in content, if not in tone) assessment of your stance?

              • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
                45·
                4 days ago

                I wouldn’t say that’s a fair assessment of my comment, plus I very specifically did not give my stance as my goal was to dispell the myth that any Marxists approve of the Russian Federation’s Capitalism, ultranationalism, reactionary social views, etc. I don’t want to give my personal stance here, as

                1. That would take far too long for a simple Lemmy thread to convey with any real complexity, and

                2. What I personally believe doesn’t matter here, it wouldn’t lead to productive conversation to begin with as Marxism is not a monolith (which was the central point of my last paragraph)

                • Zagorath@aussie.zoneEnglish
                  52·
                  3 days ago

                  Ok, I guess you’re a lost cause then. Your comments in this thread had me almost thinking I was speaking to someone reasonable, but nope…just typical tankie bullshit.

            • FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              313·
              5 days ago

              Interesting that the only examples of Marxist countries followed the Leninist model

              Perhaps because in China, Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea and Vietnam, anarcho-communists and anti-authoritarian marxsist fought the revolution alongside more authoritarian branches in “left unity” but were later brutally murdered by the authoritarian branches.

              socialist world order

              I’m not okay with a world order supported by countries like China and North Korea, pretending to be “socialist” while having murdered anarchists, LGBT people, people with disabilities and ethnic minorities.

            • TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee
              326·
              5 days ago

              Literally ignoring the slaughter of Uyghurs and Ukranians, never mind how China is essentially building up the hate speech against Japan and Taiwan within the populace through their state controlled social networks. Get back to us when you can criticize China in the same way. Same for Russia, extreme jail sentences are dished out for anyone who criticizes Putin. You are too much of a caricature, and exactly what the meme refers to.

              The USSR was a victim of trying to outimperial an imperialist power and going bankrupt, and now it’s an oligarchy with Putin at the top and any serious opposition dead and out the window / irradiated with polinium / poisoned by Novichok. China has literal execution vans driving around the country, has extended its secret police deep state overseas to intimidate Chinese who don’t play ball, and constantly rewrites its map to expand to land they want to claim as theirs. They are in border disputes with India, they are actively preparing to invade Taiwan, they have blockaded the island several times now, they have cooperated to cut undersea cables, have militarized fishing fleets that migrate world wide and bully local fishermen and exhaust the local stocks. And all you have is that raging desire to whatabout “b-b-but the US does it / does worse!” right about now and a whole bunch of rhetoric that makes you a puppet of it.

              Russia is where it is at because it has chosen this road. Before Putin tried to use the myth of restablishing USSR to enlarge the rule of his oligarchy, it was well on its way to being quite influential in Europe, so much so that it was a major partner of Germany. Russia chose conquest and sides with dictators who exploit their people. It’s telling that the US is at its worst when it has the people who collude closest with Russia.

        • L/nerd@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
          383·
          5 days ago

          ain’t no fucking way this fella’s calling china and north korea resistance to the bourgeoisie and imperialism

    • lad@programming.devEnglish
      311·
      5 days ago

      Yes, it’s literally non sequitur. And a very popular propaganda move: [country A] is good because [country B] is worse. In fact, it usually is not even relatively good if there’s a need for such ‘argument’

      • Deestan@lemmy.world
        544·
        5 days ago

        Nothing in your rant justifies Russia invading a sovereign country, murdering its citizens or deporting its children.

        Arguing agaist a nonexistent “pro US” stance and using it to morally justify Russia is exactly the kind of nonsense I was pointing out.

      • acargitz@lemmy.ca
        272·
        5 days ago

        The USSR did not fall because of a US coup. It collapsed because of its own internal contradictions.

      • ManixT@lemmy.world
        91·
        4 days ago

        “Nothing to eat for 10 years” is the find out part of Russia fucking around.

        They are no better than the Nazis. Exact same MO. Occupy countries through Imperalistic expansion, genocide the local population, and make simps like you eat up their propaganda.

        I look forward to the upcoming Russian collapse. Would be nice if they stop spreading nuclear weapons to terrorists like North Korea and Iran first.

          • ManixT@lemmy.world
            72·
            4 days ago

            You are the warmonger for white washing russian attrocities.

            Why is North Korea involved now?

            You want Ukrainians to die and you don’t care.

            • humanspiral@lemmy.ca
              15·
              3 days ago

              Anyone supporting war to the last Ukrainian because they want the opportunity to colonize them under NATO are the ones who want Ukrainians to die.

              • ManixT@lemmy.world
                11·
                2 days ago

                “Colonize them under NATO” LOL

                Those poor oppresssd NATO countries with their voluntary admission to a defensive pact so garbage like you nazi Russians can’t steal their land… again.

                • humanspiral@lemmy.ca
                  11·
                  2 days ago

                  NATO simps cannot be considered democracies. They are colonies with managed electoral outcomes, and a devotion to sacrificing their people for US empire. It should not be permitted for anyone supporting literal Ukraine nazi apartheid ethnostate rulership to ever use the word nazi to describe anti-nazi opponents.

                  defensive pact

                  Obviously complete disinformation too, and certainly a paid troll to suggest something so absurd. If there is any hope to liberating people from demonism of US empire, it passes through traitors that try to claim “NATO is a purely defensive alliance” with a straight face.

          • ManixT@lemmy.world
            61·
            4 days ago

            Imagine actually thinking that anyone is to blame for this besides Russia. How about you stop being a coward with your garbage ideology and take ownership of your actions instead of blaming everyone else?

            This is why you losers don’t mean anything to the world. You commit crimes against humanity, you support the worst dictators in the world, and you subjugate people while pretending you’re anything but murdering thieves.

  • lugal@sopuli.xyz
    419·
    5 days ago

    Stalin says to Kropotkin: “The difference between us is that you’re an aristocrat while I’m from the working class.”
    Kropotkin answer: “True, but we also have something in common: We are both class traitors.”

  • regdog@lemmy.world
    313·
    5 days ago

    Every time this gets reposted I need to point out that it is spelled: “You are not an anti-imperialist”

    English is stupid.

    • Draconic NEO@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      2·
      2 days ago

      What I want to know is, despite the amount of Hexbear brain rot over there why we are still federated with them? It seems really weird to continue to give them platform on our instances.

    • Valmond@lemmy.world
      11·
      5 days ago

      French:

      A beautiful man:

      Un <= masculin (A)

      Homme <= masculin (Man)

      So the adjective should be masculine, right?

      But as homme 1) starts with a H and the word does not have nordic descent, it’s not the masculine ‘beaux’ but feminine :

      Un bel homme.

      But not belle eh, just bel (they obviously sound exactly the same).

      Because, it sounds better.

      Which language was stupid now again?

      It’s crazy humanity can communicate at all.

    • fosho@lemmy.caEnglish
      4·
      4 days ago

      but neither are necessary. someone could just be anti imperialist.

  • orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts
    213·
    5 days ago

    Simping for any government leadership is just gross. These people don’t actually care about protecting the working class; they just want power, money, and recognition. As soon as you put a human into that role, they corrupt in one way or another. It’s why I clarify that I support the struggling working class under any ruler. The fight is always about them and ensuring they have human rights and a right to self-determination.

    Every person I’ve met in my lifetime that lived under communism had nothing good to say about it, and they were all working class. Some pasty white dudes in America don’t know shit about that and never will. They get into a fantasy loop because living under capitalism fucking sucks, and dreaming about something perceived as better is understandable.

    I recommend people read Marx and keep trying to unite the working class. Take the good pieces and stop idolizing people. As soon as you idolize a person, you are incapable of being able to identify when they do or say something terrible.

  • humanspiral@lemmy.ca
    58·
    3 days ago

    So many US empire simps here mistake opposition to their evil, and counterproductive diminishment of Americans and Europeans who simp for the empire, as supporting the Russian non-empire who needs to defend itself, and understands fully, despite any absurd propaganda to the contrary, that it needs to defend itself from US empire attempting to demonically diminish it.

    Your propaganda bubble means you cannot and will never have nice things, including any climate supporting human sustainability. Heads are so far empire ass, that advising you it stinks up there, only makes you understand it as an order to move to Russia.