Democratic strategists are still patting themselves on the back for a catastrophic defeat.
How could they try to gaslight people who refused to compromise their ethics into believing that it’s their fault without pretending to have run a flawless campaign?
No shit?
A flawless campaign would have won.
Not necessarily, you can do everything right and still lose.
That said, the reason she was initially lauded as running a great campaign was picking up Biden’s campaign from a cold start and making it much closer than map coloring makes it appear. She definitely did make mistakes in there too though, so not flawless at all.
That’s not true.
A perfect campaign would address the issuers voters have, and not insist everything is fine and voters facing homeless or food insecurity are just “leftists insisting on purity”.
That’s why I said she made some mistakes, and it wasn’t a flawless campaign.
The DNC hasn’t had a real primary since 2008. That’s the real problem.
Hey, at least the incumbent didn’t roll over and withdraw from the race last second in 2012 🙄
If you think Harris lost badly, Biden would have set ratio records.
This loss is largely on Brandon for stroking his limp dick far, far too long.
Brandon?
Insulting term for Joe Biden.
The House and Senate have rules of decorum about not using insults. So they have covert insults they use. Honourable and estimed are examples of these insults.
If you watch any cspan you will notice those terms are always used for members of the other party.
Let us proceed, Brandon.
Huh?
Right this way, Brandon.
Who?
Aw jeez, can we get off the cheap ‘primary’ diversion? If Mr Trump dies of congestive heart failure on day 207 from an astounding number of big macs, you also don’t get a primary to choose the next American president OR HIS VP.
No, the negligence goes that far back. You don’t get what happened at that debate over night. They should have announced he wasn’t running again in 2023 and allowed a proper primary.
It’s hardly a diversion. As stupid a choice as Trump is, he was still viewed by voters as their pick. While the Republican party is held hostage to the populist Trump and his supporters, the DNC won’t even let voters participate in the selection of candidates. Can you really say that Biden won a normal primary (coming from behind as other candidates strategically dropped out)? Would you say Harris was selected by voters at all? Did Clinton’s bailing out of the DNC in 2016 not register with you?
I understand why voters haven’t been that excited about the Democrats for over a decade.
Yup the only Dem I voted for president instead of holding my nose voting against the Republican was Obama. Clinton, Kerry, Biden, Harris all sucked.
Obama barely won the primary against Clinton and she made sure that wouldn’t happen again with Bernie.
the DNC won’t even let voters participate in the selection of candidates.
Can you stop with the nonsense? You just made that up out of nothing. You know the DNC is not a person right? Every primary works exactly the same. The voters elect the delegates who chose both the candidate and the DNC membership.
Ideologically similar candidates dropped out of a race and put their support behind someone ideologically similar when it became apparent that they were splitting support. Once they did that support of the voters coalesced behind Biden. Not sure why people think that’s so strange.
Putting aside how primaries are really not like team sports, I think that you have to admit that it was the DNC (or, charitably, the candidates) that chose Biden to remain in the race, rather than the voters. My whole point is that voters have had little say in the DNC primaries. That is what is strange. Voters should drive candidate selection, rather than just “coalesce”.
, I think that you have to admit that it was the DNC (or, charitably, the candidates) that chose Biden to remain in the race, rather than the voters
That is not the slightest bit how things actually work. The DNC literally does not have any such power.
You know the DNC is not a person right?
Biden received nearly twice as many votes as Bernie. Before Buttigieg and Klobuchar dropped out Biden had received more votes than them combined. Seems like voters did choose.
Who said it was like team sports?
Ideologically similar candidates dropped out of a race and put their support behind someone ideologically similar when it became apparent that they were splitting support
ie, like a team
You brought up how the candidates seemed to view the contest in more of an us vs. them, or team competition, sort of way. This isn’t how primaries typically work. Primaries are typically contests of individuals. Sorry if that was unclear enough that I had to explain it to you.
Anyway, the point is that the voters didn’t decide on Biden so much as Biden was decided for them.
The candidates coalesced around sucking the corporate cock.
Anyway, the point is that the voters didn’t decide on Biden so much as Biden was decided for them.
Dude every primary has worked the same since the early 1950’s. The early states always have much more influence than the later states.
Should all states vote at the same time? Yes probably so. But it likely made no difference. You still had the chance to vote for whoever you like, regardless of when your primary was.
Who the hell would be dumb enough not to vote for Bernie just because earlier voters chose Biden?
deleted by creator
Sorry that I keep posting and delete or edit. I think we’re talking past each other for whatever reason so it isn’t particularly useful to keep making arguments.
Our differences aside I hope you have a good day :)
Just because the person you want doesn’t win doesn’t invalidate the primaries.
What primaries lol.
That isn’t what invalidated the primaries.
Because they weren’t “invalidated”. In each and every primary the voters chose the delegates who choose the candidate. The DNC couldn’t change that process without changing the charter even if they wanted to.
Cool
Have you hit your head a lot? Asking out of genuine concern at this point. If so, use your insurance and make a doct- Nah, you’re fucked, sorry bud.
Brawndo wanted to go for a second term and then dropped out super late - thus not allowing us to have primaries this go around.
Brawndo wanted to go for a second term and then dropped out super late - thus not allowing us to have primaries this go around.
That wasn’t “the DNC” though. That was 100% on Biden. WTF did you think “the DNC” could have done about that?
Nothing, but it still invalidated the primaries. We all got fucked sideways.
❤️
We’re all so totally fucked thanks to the ruling class, aren’t we? Shit sucks.
Every single staffer took their money and failed at delivering what was expected of them. In companies, board of directors would demand clawbacks
Some of the stuff that’s come out has been metaphorically criminal in it’s negligence.
Biden had internal polls showing Trump would take 400 Electoral votes after his disastrous debate. Then it took a month for him to hand the race over to Harris. Outsiders figured this was a managed hand over with Harris being prepped and staffers reconfiguring the campaign behind the scenes. It turns out that’s not true. There was no prep, it was a complete cold start. The sheer hubris of that is insane. A responsible leader would have had a team working on that the second they saw that data.
Then her advisors, Biden’s advisors, turned out to be a who’s who of the corporate country club. Which is why the campaign seemed so at odds with itself. Walz was picked and then sidelined. Progressive issues were bandied about until suddenly Liz Cheney is on board and nothing will change, everything was fine the last 4 years. Again outsiders thought they must have internal polling that showed already high support among all likely voters who lean left, and they had to bring in Republicans to get enough voters in key areas. Again, the outsiders were wrong because who would do that if they weren’t forced to?
People worth millions of dollars who stand to benefit from a Trump presidency. I’m not saying this was a designated hit, I’m saying they seemed like Mitt Romney Republicans because it was run by people comfortable with those economic and justice policies.
And I haven’t touched Gaza. Well I guess I just did, but we were all there for that discussion so I’m not going back over it more than to mention it.
There’s so much cope out there. Sure she “only” lost by 2 million-ish votes, but when you disaggregate the data and see these votes came from almost exclusively the most embattled counties in the country, 2 million suddenly becomes a much more meaningful number.
Although, I am worried about Republican strategies moving forward. Frankly, Trump’s policies will have some very strong negative consequences if he follows through on them. It will be interesting to see Republicans try to win using the “down with the system!” strategy of the past 8 years when Trump is gone and they have the incumbency advantage. If the Dems put someone good up, they’ll win handily again.
Frankly, Trump’s policies will have some very strong negative consequences if he follows through on them.
Trump plans to destroy the United States governmental system and become a king, with the power to kill his opponents and remove anyone’s ability to ever challenge his hold on power without bringing down the full weight of a multi-trillion-dollar punitive system down upon themselves. Probably he will imprison or kill anyone who tries to disobey him. Also, he’s explicitly allied himself with violent foreign adversaries who view us as an enemy that needs to be exterminated.
I would call that negative consequences. It’s not guaranteed that he will succeed, but that’s what he’s planning, and he has some powerful allies who are going to try to help him with it.
I disagree. the dude is obviously not a monarch.
If you use words like ‘ask’, ‘cope’, or ‘spend’ like a noun, I like it when you do it really early so I can move on.
Don’t get me wrong: an average is just that. You be you.
All she had to say was:
“Israel had a right to defend itself, however after their indescriminate attacks on civillians in Gaza, not just the men, but also, the women and children, an act that clearly and undeniably violate internation laws, Israel no longer have the right to defend itself. I will immediately call on President Biden to suspend any and all military aid to Israel. Futhermore, sanctions will be imposed on Israel until they cease their indiscriminate killings.”
Then actually make Biden do it. Kneecap him if he doesn’t.
And for domestic policy:
“As president, I ensure every American has access to healthcare by calling on Congress to pass legislation that would make Medicare For All a reality in America.”
There, campaign saved. Just keep up the public appearances, talk to people, and win the election.
But unfortunately, that’s a different timeline. This timeline is fucked.
, Israel no longer have the right to defend itself. I will immediately call on President Biden to suspend any and all military aid to Israel.
The 2nd thing may or may not have helped. The 1st thing would be an absolutely stupid thing to say that would have been a major win for Treason Trump.
“As president, I ensure every American has access to healthcare by calling on Congress to pass legislation that would make Medicare For All a reality in America.”
This would have been a good idea.
I think far too many people see the price of groceries, fall for the GOP line that it’s Biden’s fault (and that deporting all illegal immigrants will help) and think Trump will save the day.
Like, yeah, post-covid recovery has been hard. Mostly stagnant wages don’t help. People feel that. Unfortunately it’s harder to feel the fact that other countries are feeling the exact same things, often worse than we are, so they vote for some weird nostalgia for the days when things were better under Trump.
People are hurting, economically, and a lot of those people chose the person who is NOT in office, ie they voted against the incumbent who is telling them everything is fine and to stop whining.
People are hurting, economically, and a lot of those people chose the person who is NOT in office
That is actually a flaw in democracy. Many people don’t get that the person who is not in office can easily make things worse. So we usually get 8 years of 1 party, then 8 years of the other party. Way too many people forget after 4 or 8 years how terrible the incompetent the GOP is.
they voted against the incumbent who is telling them everything is fine and to stop whining.
Biden never once told anybody that. If anything Biden allowed his huge accomplishments (record low unemployerment, soft landing, lowest inflation of any developed country) to be underplayed.
My gods… you’re talking about a “soft landing” and “his accomplishments”…
You understand stonks going up doesn’t matter if you are a week from being homeless, and an empty cupboard, right?
Levels of homelessness and food stress higher than any period except the Great Depression be damned right?
Sanders said it perfectly in his open letter after the election.
While the Democratic leadership defends the status quo, the American people are angry and want change. And they’re right.
Today, while the very rich are doing phenomenally well, 60% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck and we have more income and wealth inequality than ever before. Unbelievably, real, inflation-accounted-for weekly wages for the average American worker are actually lower now than they were 50 years ago.
Democrats just didn’t do enough to make people believe that their lives would change for the better from them. Continuing the status quo is not something they wanted to hear.
I can agree with that. People are so sick of things they want a disruptor. It’s hard to present yourself as that when you’re currently in office.
Going to the comment I replied to, most people don’t really know or care enough about what’s going on in Palestine right now. Not that that shouldn’t, just that they don’t (but admittedly those who do could be critical in Michigan). Medicare for all is certainly a disruptive idea, but it’s only a piece of what makes a person a disruptor. One that I’d bet not everyone fully understands.
I think Palestine was a demotivating factor for a lot of people, Michigan was still a pretty incredible outlier, but Trump picked up Muslim and Arab American voters across the board. A deciding factor? No, but a factor.
Now immigration… I’ve talked to people who’ve voted democratic by rote for their entire lives who voted for Trump over immigration. It was an extremely effective talking point that was ignored by Dems early on, then ceded to Republicans.
but Trump picked up Muslim and Arab American voters across the board.
LIke Jews voting for Hitler.
I’ve talked to people who’ve voted democratic by rote for their entire lives who voted for Trump over immigration.
Because they liked Donald Trainwreck’s Mass Green Card Policy? How idiotic can people get?
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/donald-trump-immigration-expansionist/
https://www.rawstory.com/trump-fans-rebel-over-immigration-proposal-green-card-college/
I don’t even think anyone thought that hard about it. Immigration scary, waves of immigrants coming into the country type rhetoric was enough. It’s not even about taking jobs, these people don’t engage with the fact that exploitation of mostly illegal immigrants is why they have available fruits and vegetables at all. Our entire food system is built on making immigrants do difficult, dangerous, and degrading work.
These people are worried about their taxes having to pay for illegals when they themselves are struggling. It’s wild shit!
Only a vocal, very noisy minority care about Palestine. The rest pretend to care to avoid being “cancelled”. And the narrow voting marging showed that.
It’s as simple as Harris said things would continue the same way, and Trump promised change. With grocery prices as they are, people voted based on that.
I think you overestimate how much Americans care about Palestine or foreign affairs in the wake of post covid inflation.
About 8 million [Arab] Americans cared enough to stay home, from voting.
See: Detroit, Dearborn, and several other Midwest cities with large [Arab] American citizens who stayed home, and depressed the vote there.
Very few votes would be lost by shutting off Israel. Most Americans do not care. But there were votes to be won by supporting Palestine.
I don’t think its that “Americans Care”, but its the fact that it fuels propaganda that strengthens the “Both Sides Same” narrative which causes democrats to stay home.
I disagree. Kamala could have cried ‘from the river to the sea’ or even ‘free Palestine now!’ I really don’t think it would have made those reluctant democrats get off their couches. The apathy goes beyond foreign affairs and you’re overestimating the general populace. Online discussions of geopolitics don’t mirror the real conversations Americans are having. So whire IP is big here, I hardly believe my Mom who is a dem is thinking about it much. Its really the grocery bill.
It would have convinced a sizeable [Arab] American citizens to vote, rather than stay home to avoid voting for Genocider A or Genocider B.
If they weren’t going to vote for the party focused on brokering a peace deal and instead chose to enable the one that wants to effectively glass all of Palestine, then it wasn’t ever going to be an issue regardless of what K said.
Neither party is interested in brokering a y deal that doesn’t include Israel genociding Palestinians.
Biden could have ended it by ceasing arms transfers, which he is legally required to do, since it was found the arms were to be used to aid a genocide. That’s US law.
We’re all familiar with the Leahy law talking point. I get it. Thank God Biden wasn’t running for president, and Kamala was on the ticket. I see we are still stuck on equating Kamala with Trump in terms of IP policy. This understanding is juvenile and betrays any chance for moving forward into a meaningful conversation. Have a good one.
