A million isn’t even enough to retire on anymore. That shit’ll be gone in a couple years in a nursing home. A few million might let you leave a house to your family.
The cheap houses in my part of Ohio (a fairly cheap state to buy a house in) start at about 200K
My landlord offered to sell me the house I rent for $67k. It extremely small and needs probably 40k in repairs to even make it safe to live in. This is in one of the lowest cost of living areas of the country. You can’t make good money here unless you travel for work or have advanced degrees or certifications AND/OR know the right people
Here in Brazil you can, but we have ways to curb real estate speculation, the government can force owners to rent or sell properties that are idle, this helps keep the prices under control. On top of that, mortgages for ones first home is strictly regulated, especially in terms of how much interest can be charged.
Yup. Thanks to those controls and a federal program called “My home, My life” that I managed to buy a condo on a nice neighborhood for around $50k. By coincidence, it’s across the street from the labour union founded by our current president, Lula. Sometimes he visits the place to make speeches, so I get to see him :-)
Depends of which currency you’re talking about. Brazilian Reais ? Sure. Minimum wage here is R$ 18k/yr, so that would be about 4x that. US Dollars ? Pretty hard, unless you’re on executive levels.
But… Cost of living here is much lower than in US. Take food for example. A Discord friend from Colorado showed me a picture of a carton of eggs… US$ 7.50 for a dozen. Here in Brazil for that price you could buy around 50 or 60 eggs. Buying or renting a home is way cheaper too, fuel costs are lower, because our cars can run on Ethanol, which is 40% cheaper that Gasoline, we don’t have to spend money on heating or heavy winter clothes (except for the 3 southern states, but it still cheaper than northern US. The coldest those states get around 25F).
Sure, electronics and cars are a bit more expensive, same for some luxury goods. But even with those things costing more, with wages close to the equivalent of US$ 30k, you can have a standard of living that in the US would require closer to US$ 100k.
I was wondering the same thing, as well as living off of the interest of 900K? Assuming an interest rate of about 4% (and that’s if the Fed doesn’t start cutting rates again), that’d be 36K a year? I mean, I guess it could be done, but I’m not sure it’d be what someone might call rich…of course, there is the cushion if you don’t cut into it…
I recently looked at a 2BR house where I live (Philly suburb with an excellent school system) that was listed for $69K. It was in great shape except for the very minor problem of termites having eaten through literally all of the floor joists. Walking in the house was like walking on a trampoline, very weird experience. It had been occupied up until a week prior, somehow.
So I’m a carpenter and own my own contracting business. Having to replace every floor joist in your house is INCREDIBLY expensive. Like depending on the size of your house you’re looking at anywhere from 20 grand to 100 grand, just to make your house legal to live in.
Well yeah, that was the point of my comment. You can find houses for $70K but they’re going to need a shitload of expensive work. For this particular house, it would have been on the $20K end, though. It was a very small house (2BR on one floor, about 650 sq. ft.) and I had priced the lumber for the joists and new decking at around $6K or $7K. The labor costs with a proper crew would have taken it well north of $10K for sure; I could have done all the work myself but probably not without permanently damaging my body. Fortunately it sold almost immediately - for $90K.
Did you really use a $50k house that needs at least $100k in repairs in a terrible neighborhood of Cleveland, Ohio as an example? Are you trolling? This might be the worst house for sale in America.
Seriously? You think that’s the worst house in America? There’s not even pictures of the inside because long term tenants live there.
Thats not a bad area. Thats W.46 between Storer and Clark. I could open zillow again, and try to find some of those $2,000 dollar houses if you want to see some houses that need repairs. And they’d be in the actual ghetto.
There’s not even pictures of the inside because long term tenants live there.
Lol there aren’t pictures of the inside because the tenants have destroyed the place and are refusing to pay rent, and the landlord - having learned that investing in rental properties is not always the money-printing panacea it’s cracked up to be - is desperate to escape from the situation.
Thats the whole point of the original comment. I can’t figure out WHAT his motivation is, when his entire career is him basically saying “DESTROY ME! I SHOULDN’T HAVE THIS MUCH MONEY! NOBODY SHOULD!”
…but whys HE saying that. Like I could understand if he made like 30k a year, and had a few thousand in savings. But he’s the image of who’s he’s trying to turn the torches on. Is it intentional? Does he not realize?
Meanwhile, people read the innitial comment I made, and are defending him by saying he’s not the problem.
You do know what net worth is right? It’s combined wealth. A lot of people are worth 1mil or more… especially since the housing boom. This is some of the dumbest logic to bitch about someone who is worth a few million. Get your head out of your ass, bitching about millionaires is hilarious, while the billionaires are running the country.
I never bitched about him. I’ve said the same thing over and over and over. The comment was about context of why he’s saying to eat the rich, when that’s him.
if you want $900k to provide a steady return every year indefinitely, and while accounting for inflation, taxes on proceeds, fluctuations in the market, etc. you won’t be taking out nearly as much as you think each year.
$1,500 every month, no rent, no mortgage, no electric bill. Basically means you’re paying taxes, insurance, water, gas, phone/internet. I’ll just round that off at $600. Means $900 a month after bills. All without working.
$18,000 is only $3k above the federal poverty level, and well below for a family of 2. This sounds like one of those out of touch McDonald’s PR budgets.
Better hope your home never needs a new roof, that’ll be at LEAST 6 months of your passive income gone. Car breaks down? Well you need to fix that because you live in BFE, that’s another month gone.
Not to mention I don’t know what scooter you’re parking in your one room shack to keep taxes and insurance and utilities under $600. Are you fitting health insurance in that too or just offing yourself when you get medical debt? Hope you never have any dependants either, that’s when things get really pricey.
If anything, I’d have to check the map, and make sure Daves is as close as I think, but you could just walk everywhere. Although at his age, maybe he’d need a car. But the neighborhood is very drivable. It’s not like you’re out in the sticks.
He’s a pedigreed professional at the top of his field at the end of his career. Literally a world class statesmen regardless of if you favor his positions. Why wouldn’t such a person be worth 5-10 mil? He earned his position which can be with a strong salary… For decades. Even tame investments in the whole market would steer him handily towards that worth
That doesn’t even touch on the mountain of social good and enrichment and support of the poor that he has directly contributed to over his career
He could be adolph hitler, he could the most pure kind person who’s ever lived. Either way, your monetary value has no context on how or why you have the money. Nobody is argueing if he’s good at heart.
My comment was that I never know how to react to HIM saying eat the rich, when he’s rich.
You’re trying to bring politics and emotions into this. That was never the conversation.
I’m saying that gap doesn’t matter. At that point, it’s just numbers. It’s like a high score as opposed to meaningful currency that dictates your life. I never said he’s the richest. I said he’s rich, and his whole thing is “destroy the rich”.
When is rich to you? Is it $100k? $500k? Or just when you have to start adding “-illion” to the number? Is a 25 year old who worked for 5 years with 100k as rich as someone who worked for 50 years to get 10x that?
The gap does matter, it’s not our fault you can’t comprehend the magnitude of these gaps
I never said I don’t comprehend the gaps. I’m saying they don’t matter.
Tom is a rich guy, who doesn’t need to work for a living. He lives off the interest in his bank account.
Jeff is a rich guy who doesn’t need to work for a living. He lives off the interest in his bank account.
Bob is a guy who has some savings, but if he stops working he becomes full of debt.
The difference between Tom and Jeff are the number of decimal points in their bank accounts. The difference between them and Bob is that Bob doesn’t work to maintain an image, or run a company. Bob works because he HAS TO.
The second you have the ability to quit your job, and not impact your ability to live, is when you’re rich.
Sure, there’s a big gap between having a few billion, and having a few million if you look at numbers. There is no difference however with you being required to work. Thats why the gap doesn’t matter.
So is it the interest that’s the problem? Or the not working?
You could be unable to work on disability with an inherited house and get pretty much to that poverty line. Why isn’t that the same?
What if there wasn’t interest but I got $5m in the lottery and just decided to spend $1m buying a house in a good neighborhood and paying off debts. Then I just take out 50k out from my mattress per year until I die.
If you’re a certain age and don’t care about your estate you could do the same thing with a line of credit. Now I have negative net worth but I’m choosing not to work while maintaining a decent life.
There is a real, tangible difference between any of these scenarios (yours or mine) and having enough money to shape legislation or buy yourself into the fucking Whitehouse. That just happens to be roughly the difference between ~1 million (living comfortably) and 1+ billion (buying lobbyists)
how does it not matter? you can still be a millionaire without exploiting the system and other people (you definitely need to be lucky or have good starting conditions to your adulthood though). But even with good starting conditions, you cannot earn billions without exploiting a whole country’s worth of population and evading tax. This is the class of rich, people like Bernie are talking about. If you think “its just numbers” and dont see a difference between the two, you are not thinking in detail you are blurting out sentences sorry.
He ain’t rich. He’s experienced, the top of his industry and at the end of his career. He’s accrued decent wealth given those life details but frankly it’s TINY for how he clearly could have spent his life.
He’s not rich, he’s successful and at the finish line.
He is not rich. He is well off at best (as I said, at the very end of a prestigious career). Other people are just very very poor. But the gap between him and the poor is tiny compared to the gap between him and musk and co
Bernie doesn’t say “eat the rich”, you’re saying that. Bernie makes specific statements about who to tax, and when and how.
He does pay his fair share. If the richest in the US paid tax like he does, there wouldn’t be a problem.
You needn’t be broke to want to end billionaires. Plenty of people clinging to their status as ‘middle-class’ want to end billionaires. They can be insulated AND correct.
What a brain dead thing to say. Is your whole argument that only the non rich are allowed to mention that the system is broken? Does he have to divest of all his assets before making any observations about our economic system? What a weird thing to get hung up on. This cant be real.
Bernie Sanders is out there talking about eating the rich…he always convienently leaves out that HE HIMSELF is rich.
I’m never sure if that’s meant to say like “Yeah, I’LL pay my fair share if we get all the other rich people to do it too”.
Or if it’s meant to be something that sounds good on a soundbyte that makes you angry at the rich…while you’re not supposed to know HE’S rich.
I never know what to take that context as.
Bernie isn’t rich. He’s in the low millions, which pretty much can’t even buy a home in most places anymore.
If someone has even 1 million dollars they’re rich. That’s the thing about numbers. They’re infinate.
You say you couldn’t even buy a house with a few million dollars? I could buy a house for $70,000.
For another $10,000 I could fit the house with solar, and use the other 900,000 to live off interest.
How is that not rich?
The difference between 1 billion and 1 million dollars is just about 1 billion dollars.
And maybe you could find a house for 70k in your area, but that is not common at all. The AVERAGE home price in my area is 525-550,000.
Having a single million dollars just does not mean you’re rich these days.
A million isn’t even enough to retire on anymore. That shit’ll be gone in a couple years in a nursing home. A few million might let you leave a house to your family.
The cheap houses in my part of Ohio (a fairly cheap state to buy a house in) start at about 200K
Where are you buying a house for 70 grand?
My landlord offered to sell me the house I rent for $67k. It extremely small and needs probably 40k in repairs to even make it safe to live in. This is in one of the lowest cost of living areas of the country. You can’t make good money here unless you travel for work or have advanced degrees or certifications AND/OR know the right people
It’s one of those Gen Z living vans we see in the memes because they can’t afford a house.
Here in Brazil you can, but we have ways to curb real estate speculation, the government can force owners to rent or sell properties that are idle, this helps keep the prices under control. On top of that, mortgages for ones first home is strictly regulated, especially in terms of how much interest can be charged.
Oh crazy. That’s a good idea. Do you find it works well for your country?
Yup. Thanks to those controls and a federal program called “My home, My life” that I managed to buy a condo on a nice neighborhood for around $50k. By coincidence, it’s across the street from the labour union founded by our current president, Lula. Sometimes he visits the place to make speeches, so I get to see him :-)
Oh that’s dope. What are wages like in Brazil? Like is it easy to find a job making around 60k a year?
Depends of which currency you’re talking about. Brazilian Reais ? Sure. Minimum wage here is R$ 18k/yr, so that would be about 4x that. US Dollars ? Pretty hard, unless you’re on executive levels.
But… Cost of living here is much lower than in US. Take food for example. A Discord friend from Colorado showed me a picture of a carton of eggs… US$ 7.50 for a dozen. Here in Brazil for that price you could buy around 50 or 60 eggs. Buying or renting a home is way cheaper too, fuel costs are lower, because our cars can run on Ethanol, which is 40% cheaper that Gasoline, we don’t have to spend money on heating or heavy winter clothes (except for the 3 southern states, but it still cheaper than northern US. The coldest those states get around 25F).
Sure, electronics and cars are a bit more expensive, same for some luxury goods. But even with those things costing more, with wages close to the equivalent of US$ 30k, you can have a standard of living that in the US would require closer to US$ 100k.
Brazil in general seems like it really wants a middle class, y’all’s consumer protection laws are seriously good for the consumers too.
And they were so close to tipping into fascism under Bolsonaro. The opposition ran a leftist candidate and it worked! Imagine that.
Brazil is not the USA obviously but there might still be lessons to learn.
I was wondering the same thing, as well as living off of the interest of 900K? Assuming an interest rate of about 4% (and that’s if the Fed doesn’t start cutting rates again), that’d be 36K a year? I mean, I guess it could be done, but I’m not sure it’d be what someone might call rich…of course, there is the cushion if you don’t cut into it…
I recently looked at a 2BR house where I live (Philly suburb with an excellent school system) that was listed for $69K. It was in great shape except for the very minor problem of termites having eaten through literally all of the floor joists. Walking in the house was like walking on a trampoline, very weird experience. It had been occupied up until a week prior, somehow.
So I’m a carpenter and own my own contracting business. Having to replace every floor joist in your house is INCREDIBLY expensive. Like depending on the size of your house you’re looking at anywhere from 20 grand to 100 grand, just to make your house legal to live in.
Well yeah, that was the point of my comment. You can find houses for $70K but they’re going to need a shitload of expensive work. For this particular house, it would have been on the $20K end, though. It was a very small house (2BR on one floor, about 650 sq. ft.) and I had priced the lumber for the joists and new decking at around $6K or $7K. The labor costs with a proper crew would have taken it well north of $10K for sure; I could have done all the work myself but probably not without permanently damaging my body. Fortunately it sold almost immediately - for $90K.
Ah I see. Yeah 70 grand for a house and living off the rest is not feasible.
Down in Mexico you can buy a nice 3-bedroom villa for $20k to $30k. I’ve been wondering if I have enough savings to retire in Mexico already
Maybe in the 80’s. Not now.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3284-W-46th-St-Cleveland-OH-44102/33354305_zpid/
All I did was pull up zillow, and set the parameters for 50k-80k. This is the first result. There’s 15 more.
Did you really use a $50k house that needs at least $100k in repairs in a terrible neighborhood of Cleveland, Ohio as an example? Are you trolling? This might be the worst house for sale in America.
Seriously? You think that’s the worst house in America? There’s not even pictures of the inside because long term tenants live there.
Thats not a bad area. Thats W.46 between Storer and Clark. I could open zillow again, and try to find some of those $2,000 dollar houses if you want to see some houses that need repairs. And they’d be in the actual ghetto.
This is what you said before:
Where are you planning to live on that interest? Because it won’t be in that house.
You don’t think you could live in a $70,000 house, that’s fully paid off, with $1,500 a month?
Lol there aren’t pictures of the inside because the tenants have destroyed the place and are refusing to pay rent, and the landlord - having learned that investing in rental properties is not always the money-printing panacea it’s cracked up to be - is desperate to escape from the situation.
How’s the commute from there to the Capitol building where he works?
He doesn’t have to work. The comment was that he could buy a house, buy solar, and never have to do anything again.
You think he works for the money?!?
Thats the whole point of the original comment. I can’t figure out WHAT his motivation is, when his entire career is him basically saying “DESTROY ME! I SHOULDN’T HAVE THIS MUCH MONEY! NOBODY SHOULD!”
…but whys HE saying that. Like I could understand if he made like 30k a year, and had a few thousand in savings. But he’s the image of who’s he’s trying to turn the torches on. Is it intentional? Does he not realize?
Meanwhile, people read the innitial comment I made, and are defending him by saying he’s not the problem.
Which completely misses the point.
You do know what net worth is right? It’s combined wealth. A lot of people are worth 1mil or more… especially since the housing boom. This is some of the dumbest logic to bitch about someone who is worth a few million. Get your head out of your ass, bitching about millionaires is hilarious, while the billionaires are running the country.
I never bitched about him. I’ve said the same thing over and over and over. The comment was about context of why he’s saying to eat the rich, when that’s him.
And I’ve now repeated my self a few times. Being worth a few million is not rich anymore.
if you want $900k to provide a steady return every year indefinitely, and while accounting for inflation, taxes on proceeds, fluctuations in the market, etc. you won’t be taking out nearly as much as you think each year.
$900,000 x .02 = $18,000 ÷ 12 = 1,500.
$1,500 every month, no rent, no mortgage, no electric bill. Basically means you’re paying taxes, insurance, water, gas, phone/internet. I’ll just round that off at $600. Means $900 a month after bills. All without working.
You telling me that ain’t rich?
$18,000 is only $3k above the federal poverty level, and well below for a family of 2. This sounds like one of those out of touch McDonald’s PR budgets.
Better hope your home never needs a new roof, that’ll be at LEAST 6 months of your passive income gone. Car breaks down? Well you need to fix that because you live in BFE, that’s another month gone.
Not to mention I don’t know what scooter you’re parking in your one room shack to keep taxes and insurance and utilities under $600. Are you fitting health insurance in that too or just offing yourself when you get medical debt? Hope you never have any dependants either, that’s when things get really pricey.
I wouldn’t call 44th and Clark BFE.
If anything, I’d have to check the map, and make sure Daves is as close as I think, but you could just walk everywhere. Although at his age, maybe he’d need a car. But the neighborhood is very drivable. It’s not like you’re out in the sticks.
lol what? No, that’s not at all rich by any account
Username is accurate. You’re a dunce.
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He’s a pedigreed professional at the top of his field at the end of his career. Literally a world class statesmen regardless of if you favor his positions. Why wouldn’t such a person be worth 5-10 mil? He earned his position which can be with a strong salary… For decades. Even tame investments in the whole market would steer him handily towards that worth
That doesn’t even touch on the mountain of social good and enrichment and support of the poor that he has directly contributed to over his career
You’re missing the point entirely.
He could be adolph hitler, he could the most pure kind person who’s ever lived. Either way, your monetary value has no context on how or why you have the money. Nobody is argueing if he’s good at heart.
My comment was that I never know how to react to HIM saying eat the rich, when he’s rich.
You’re trying to bring politics and emotions into this. That was never the conversation.
You understand he’s not literally talking about eating them right?
It’s a taxation thing, you increase the tax rate as the rate of wealth increases. I’m pretty sure Bernie supports progressive taxation.
If you were actually curious about it you could look up his position pretty easily., it really looks like you’re jUsT aSKinG qUEtiONs
And you’re not getting that there’s an insane difference between rich, and RICH.
I’m saying that gap doesn’t matter. At that point, it’s just numbers. It’s like a high score as opposed to meaningful currency that dictates your life. I never said he’s the richest. I said he’s rich, and his whole thing is “destroy the rich”.
But thats him.
When is rich to you? Is it $100k? $500k? Or just when you have to start adding “-illion” to the number? Is a 25 year old who worked for 5 years with 100k as rich as someone who worked for 50 years to get 10x that?
The gap does matter, it’s not our fault you can’t comprehend the magnitude of these gaps
I never said I don’t comprehend the gaps. I’m saying they don’t matter.
Tom is a rich guy, who doesn’t need to work for a living. He lives off the interest in his bank account.
Jeff is a rich guy who doesn’t need to work for a living. He lives off the interest in his bank account.
Bob is a guy who has some savings, but if he stops working he becomes full of debt.
The difference between Tom and Jeff are the number of decimal points in their bank accounts. The difference between them and Bob is that Bob doesn’t work to maintain an image, or run a company. Bob works because he HAS TO.
The second you have the ability to quit your job, and not impact your ability to live, is when you’re rich.
Sure, there’s a big gap between having a few billion, and having a few million if you look at numbers. There is no difference however with you being required to work. Thats why the gap doesn’t matter.
So is it the interest that’s the problem? Or the not working?
You could be unable to work on disability with an inherited house and get pretty much to that poverty line. Why isn’t that the same?
What if there wasn’t interest but I got $5m in the lottery and just decided to spend $1m buying a house in a good neighborhood and paying off debts. Then I just take out 50k out from my mattress per year until I die.
If you’re a certain age and don’t care about your estate you could do the same thing with a line of credit. Now I have negative net worth but I’m choosing not to work while maintaining a decent life.
There is a real, tangible difference between any of these scenarios (yours or mine) and having enough money to shape legislation or buy yourself into the fucking Whitehouse. That just happens to be roughly the difference between ~1 million (living comfortably) and 1+ billion (buying lobbyists)
Why do I get the feeling that the person you are talking to would call those people either lucky or lazy?
Thats complete nonsense, but OK.
how does it not matter? you can still be a millionaire without exploiting the system and other people (you definitely need to be lucky or have good starting conditions to your adulthood though). But even with good starting conditions, you cannot earn billions without exploiting a whole country’s worth of population and evading tax. This is the class of rich, people like Bernie are talking about. If you think “its just numbers” and dont see a difference between the two, you are not thinking in detail you are blurting out sentences sorry.
He ain’t rich. He’s experienced, the top of his industry and at the end of his career. He’s accrued decent wealth given those life details but frankly it’s TINY for how he clearly could have spent his life.
He’s not rich, he’s successful and at the finish line.
He’s ABSOLUTELY rich! The rest of what you said isn’t really on topic, and I don’t disagree with it, but he IS rich.
He is not rich. He is well off at best (as I said, at the very end of a prestigious career). Other people are just very very poor. But the gap between him and the poor is tiny compared to the gap between him and musk and co
I think it’s possible to be ‘rich’ and humble.
It may depend on how you become rich.
Oh I never said he wasn’t humble. I’m just confused by his motivations behind saying to eat the rich…ya know…because that’s him.
You can assume he means himself as well.
If we take care of the billionaires, and he starts getting defensive, then we can oppose him. It’s easy.
Bernie doesn’t say “eat the rich”, you’re saying that. Bernie makes specific statements about who to tax, and when and how.
He does pay his fair share. If the richest in the US paid tax like he does, there wouldn’t be a problem.
You needn’t be broke to want to end billionaires. Plenty of people clinging to their status as ‘middle-class’ want to end billionaires. They can be insulated AND correct.
What a brain dead thing to say. Is your whole argument that only the non rich are allowed to mention that the system is broken? Does he have to divest of all his assets before making any observations about our economic system? What a weird thing to get hung up on. This cant be real.
Class analysis is the only thing that matters. Read theory and stop being a wrecker.
Brainrot bot comment.