• magnetosphere@fedia.io
    2·
    6 months ago

    He strikes me as the kind of person who uses words like “bourgeois” to sound smart and thoughtful… but uses them while regurgitating talking points from fox “news”.

    • barsquid@lemmy.world
      0·
      6 months ago

      The very left lefties who explain to us that the best tactics to achieve leftism are coincidentally doing exactly what the rightmost political group wants.

      • magnetosphere@fedia.io
        0·
        6 months ago

        I can understand being frustrated with democracy. It has many strengths, but efficiency isn’t one of them.

        When you see an injustice, you want it fixed NOW. Authoritarianism looks kinda good then, but ultimately it causes more problems than it solves.

        “Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”

      • Vilian@lemmy.ca
        0·
        6 months ago

        maybe, but it’s open source, it easy to just fork if they start fucking with the code

    • LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net
      0·
      6 months ago

      Marxism-Leninism is fundamentally a right-wing ideology. It’s a right-wing ideology that is very much at odds with the dominant right-wing ideology in the West, but if you blur your eyes and take a step back, you’ll see the same thinking at play. Once you realize this, the whole situation starts to make a lot more sense.

    • XNX@slrpnk.net
      0·
      6 months ago

      Tankies like him basically regurgitate fox news talking points other than anything relating to china lol. Like literally itd be difficult to tell them apart if china wasnt mentioned

    • Beaver@lemmy.caOPEnglish
      0·
      6 months ago

      They’re not much different from the republicans they so detest. Hell I mean even Cuba is apathetic towards transgender people, Nutomic should be like them.

      • FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        1·
        6 months ago

        His argumentation is dumb.

        But even more so, IF the bourgeoisie were promoting pro-trans stuff. It would NOT be suprising that the bourgeoisie would ALSO be promoting anti-trans stuff. It fans the flame of this “culture war”which according to communist theory, would distract people from realising the “true divide” in society is class, and workers to unite.

        TLDR: He’s clearly a conservative of some sort because his logic is incompatible with communist theory.

          • Omniraptor@lemm.ee
            0·
            6 months ago

            hm can you link to an example of posts that fits the description “pushing you to distract trans activists”?

                • vga@sopuli.xyz
                  0·
                  6 months ago

                  Great article, thanks for that.

                  Quote from its 4th section:

                  then I ought to accept an unexpected man or two deep inside the conceptual boundaries of what would normally be considered female if it’ll save someone’s life.

                  I think the confusion (in my case) is that even though I think male and female are well-defined concepts based on biology, this fact does not preclude doing something special for the benefit of the remaining 1% who don’t fit the definition. And it also doesn’t preclude having a sexual identity that differs from the biological ones.

                  So I don’t understand the leap from what I’m saying to accusing me of being transphobic, and by extension, evil in a somewhat religious sense. This is where it seems to me that the discussion is fucked.

                  And the accusation of being anti-scientific I thought was just wrong, but that’s fine.

            • psud@aussie.zone
              0·
              6 months ago

              So picture a political compass. “The right” think they’re in a corner marked as pro corporations/pro individual freedom, but are actually not quite there given their desire for government to control other people

              Most of “the left” are anti-corporate more or less and disagree on individual freedom.

              Tankies are pseudo-intellectual nuts. They are orthogonal to the political compass

            • UnityDevice@startrek.website
              0·
              6 months ago

              It’s easy to understand them when you realise that their entire ideology starts at “anything the US does or says is bad” and continue from there.

              • The US supports Taiwan and is against China? China good, Taiwan bad.
              • The US supports Ukraine and is against Russia? Russia good, Ukraine bad.
              • Israel, Palestine, same thing
              • Bosnian and Rwandan genocide happened? Well the US says so, therefore they didn’t.
              • NATO bombed Serbia over their attempted genocide in Kosovo. NATO is the US, so Serbia didn’t do anything wrong, but Kosovo is bad.
              • And so on, and so on…

              Once you look at it through that lense, even their most wild takes suddenly become very consistent.

                • The Quuuuuill@slrpnk.netEnglish
                  0·
                  6 months ago

                  The US has been the grand champion of capitalism. That is a fair criticism to level against us. Its a criticism most of us share. We’ve done some fucked up shit and acted as a force multiplier making smaller conflicts into bigger conflicts with more killing and more suffering. We do this less because our politicians believe in doing the right thing and more because it maintains to neocolonial status quo. Where I draw the line with tankies though is that they are ALSO engaging in force multiplying neocolonialism. Russia is invading Ukraine right now because Putin is big mad about losing control of soviet colonial holdings. What I advocate for is a dismantling of both US capitalist colonialism AND Soviet Bolshevik colonialism. You can’t be a tanky and Anticolonial, too

            • pearable@lemmy.ml
              0·
              6 months ago

              I think it has to do with complete distrust in western news and government (WNG). They can discount anything WNG says; especially when, it goes against their belief that the US is bad.

              I believe we live in the most sophisticated propaganda machine ever developed but the folks who are a part of it mostly don’t lie. They’ve got the same problem the tankies have but reversed. The folks who work in WNG believe the US is good. They naturally distrust and minimize any info that would conflict with their beliefs.

              There’s a lot of cognitive dissonance.

              The only way I can navigate my belief in the fundamental inaccuracy of information is acknowledging it and accepting I don’t have enough info to be certain a lot of the time.

            • mashbooq@infosec.pub
              0·
              6 months ago

              They’re Soviet conservatives. So they have all the shit takes conservatives in the US have, they just hate the US instead Iran or whoever the US hates today.

      • Goodie@lemmy.world
        0·
        6 months ago

        Lost me at ‘Why do they need to be “rooted out”?’.

        Welp, they’re a piece of shit.

        • Jerkface (any/all)@lemmy.caEnglish
          0·
          6 months ago

          Yeah kind of buried the lede, you don’t need to unpack political ideologies to understand the hatred in the first response.

      • XNX@slrpnk.net
        0·
        6 months ago

        Butd transphobes in quotation marks, bans everything he considers “sinophobia” even if you just mention literal policy in china. why are tankies so weird about so much stuff

          • Beaver@lemmy.caOPEnglish
            0·
            6 months ago

            They do not understand the concept of gaining grassroots’ support through the use of education.

          • XNX@slrpnk.net
            0·
            6 months ago

            Don’t equate authoritarianism with mental disorders or disabilities. Authoritarians love targeting the disabled and it has nothing to do with it. People being miseducated, propagandized, and their insecurities leading them to want authoritarians in control has nothing to do with mental disorders

            • The Quuuuuill@slrpnk.netEnglish
              0·
              6 months ago

              I really mean it though. Authoritarianism is a trauma response to being abused as a child. Our brains when raised in an authoritarian household that punishes us through physical violence like spanking becomes much more likely to seek authority from positions of power in adulthood, and if there becomes a power vaccuum or a shift away from top down authority, we transform ourselves from the follower to the leader. Whether or not authoritarians victimize people with mental disorders and disabilities is immaterial. They victimize every single group they can marginalize because they were ultimately empty from the childhood trauma that they’ve glossed over and turned into a positive aspect of their upbringing. Anytime you hear “my parents spanked me, and I turned out find” you are hearing a twisted mind grappling with an extreme trauma and justifying the shitty person they’ve become because if they don’t, it means they haven’t survived their core trauma yet

              • GatanKult@lemmy.world
                0·
                6 months ago

                freudianism is pseudoscience, as is most discourse around “child traumas” (spanking = trauma? really? that’s absurd concept creep). Just look at the recovered memory movement.

                While it often took weeks or months, by all accounts, the therapists were remarkably successful at convincing patients that their minds had hidden horrible abuse memories.

                because childhood memories remain in the liminal period of awareness, you can convince yourself that personality is built on childhood experiences. It’s an insane tabula rasa and simply not true.

                wants strong government = beaten as a child is a terrible pop-sci take, exactly the same as chuds saying all gay men were molested as children

                • The Quuuuuill@slrpnk.netEnglish
                  0·
                  6 months ago
                  1. Yes. Fruedianism is psuedoscience. That’s why I’d never deal in it.
                  2. Saying childhood traumas don’t shape us is fucking embarrassing when you’re trying to present yourself as being in the know
                  3. Saying spanking isn’t traumatic makes me think I don’t even have to deal with the rest of what you say
                  4. Yes. Recovered memory is a bunch of bunked up bullshit. Again. I’d never deal in it. You really are focused on tearing down what I’m saying based on shit I never said
                  5. Yo, you think fucking cihldhood memories end when you start having more awareness? We’re talking about the entire lived experience of being a child in an adults household. That shit ends when you leave for college. Again. You’re really focused on saying I’m saying something I’m not saying, so actually, genuinely, fuck off.
                  6. Saying this is a pop-sci take is probably the only real thing you said in all this. And there’s a difference between “wants a strong government” and “wants a dictator” and that’s what I was addressing. I’ll drop some links and let people coming across this decide which of us is basing what they’re saying off current understandings of how brains work
                • Jerkface (any/all)@lemmy.caEnglish
                  0·
                  6 months ago

                  (spanking = trauma? really? that’s absurd concept creep).

                  Please stop. Anything can be traumatic. Two people can have the same experience; one receives trauma and another does not. You likely know people who have trauma from parental violence. This isn’t rhetorical, the things you say affect people.

          • Azzu@lemm.ee
            0·
            6 months ago

            I’m not sure how this is hate speech from nutomic? They’re not necessarily saying anything bad about trans people as far as I can see, only that the bourgeoisie have nothing to do with it? Or what am I missing here

    • Beaver@lemmy.caOPEnglish
      0·
      6 months ago

      Its nice having terrible social skills sometimes to the point where I make people drop the mask quicker.

      • smoothbrain coldtakes@lemmy.ca
        0·
        6 months ago

        It also helps that nutomic and Dessalines are both certifiable.

        It’s kind of a shame. I really like the platform and the concepts inherent to federated social media, but it really sucks that the maintainers of the codebase are hostile to any ideology but their own.

        • Beaver@lemmy.caOPEnglish
          0·
          6 months ago

          I wanted to support them before but now I’m hoping someone forks their codebase.

          • XNX@slrpnk.net
            0·
            6 months ago

            Piefed is a beauty. Made to be easily to contribute to, great morals and focus on tools for safety, ability to subscribe to posts for notifications sorts like the forum days, compatible with lemmy and discourse forum federation iirc and the main developer seems really chill and like he cares about making a good and healthy platform

              • Rikudou_Sage@lemmings.world
                0·
                6 months ago

                There are several bad architectural decisions and when your architecture is wrong, the quality of the code itself doesn’t really matter (to be more specific, I was talking about architecture in my previous comment, not the code itself, I don’t know Rust so I can’t really comment on that).

                To fix the architecture, major parts would have to be rewritten, almost making it a different codebase, because pretty much no part would be left unturned.

  • Birbatron@lemmy.mlEnglish
    1·
    6 months ago

    As someone who just joined and picked .ml because it seemed generally leftist

    What the fuck?

    • Wxnzxn@lemmy.ml
      0·
      6 months ago

      Yeah, I am too attached to my account because it’s several years old and was made when there were next to no instances running. But I can only shake my head at the amount of Marxist-Leninist nonsense that is at times pushed there, that unironically elevates what was a development of “Marxism” out of the material conditions of the Eastern Bloc as an imperialist sphere bent on market expansion and accumulation of national capital, into a religion-like orthodoxy.

      No, ideology that is nominally Marxist, and having an educated caste of decision-makers highly trained in your interpretation of it at the top won’t prevent capitalist dynamics and bring about communism, only the material base and changing it will, and your ideology will follow what your material base demands. And that had been expansion of national capital for the Eastern sphere since the revolution failed to link up with any industrialised nations in the 1920s. The elevation of Marxism into a basically teleological ideology, claiming that with subservience to the interests of national capital, there will be communism at the end (a promise broken over and over again), is completely understandable by looking at the Soviet and Chinese spheres of influence from a Marxist perspective.

      And even the structures put into place by Lenin were explicitly designed as for his own time and the conditions within the Russian Empire, not as an infallible orthodoxy, and things like Democratic Centralism explicitly contained open and free discussion before unity of action, which was just completely pushed away. Urgh, it’s sad to me, because I think a new, invigorated and organised communist movement is needed more than ever, but by redirecting it to the national interest of states like China (and even Russia, which isn’t even nominally communist, and just opposes western imperialism to impose its own imperialism - like choosing Germany over France in WWI, the exact shit Lenin fought against) instead of the international proletariat, just weakens it overall.

      • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
        0·
        6 months ago

        I mean there literally is one. European style social democracy and democratic socialism has made way more progress towards socialist ideals than anything inherited from the Leninist tradition. It’s just that the revolutionary fan service isn’t as good so the Orthodox MLs don’t like it very much.

        • Jerkface (any/all)@lemmy.caEnglish
          0·
          6 months ago

          Technology and social advances have increased the wealth and income disparity that the working class will tolerate without destroying the system.

    • barsquid@lemmy.world
      0·
      6 months ago

      It is generally leftist. Unfortunately you are probably imagining leftist economics but they want “leftist” authoritarianism. They despise capitalism. They love state capitalism. They will excuse any atrocities and human rights violations that occur as long as the country is extremely authoritarian and pretending to be economically left.

      They are historical revisionists as well. Admins are extremely fragile. They will ban you from every community for writing historically accurate facts. If you find this screenshot appalling you should preemptively switch to a different instance before they catch you doing wrongthink and ban you.

      Source: I had a lemmy.ml account for the same reasons as you.

    • vga@sopuli.xyz
      0·
      6 months ago

      Leftism doesn’t require trans activism. It happens there mostly due to tribalism, not because the ideology somehow makes it necessary.

        • vga@sopuli.xyz
          0·
          6 months ago

          I don’t exactly see why that’s a requirement. You mean because trans people usually need costly medical treatments?

          • Beaver@lemmy.caOPEnglish
            0·
            6 months ago

            Weaken work performance because of poor mental health will be much more costly in the long run for society.

            Healthcare is not a zero sum game and we can tax the rich much more to cover it all.

        • Katrisia@lemm.ee
          0·
          6 months ago

          Yes. It worries me that you haven’t found them. Either you have but you thought they were stupid anyway because of them being leftists, or you haven’t because you do not believe in any way in equality, solidarity, search for knowledge, and many other values the left stands for. This I find difficult to believe.

        • vga@sopuli.xyz
          0·
          6 months ago

          Well yes. There’s a smart kind of leftism too. The kind they had in the 70s and 80s. But it’s not very mainstream right now.

          • CoffeeJunkie@lemmy.world
            0·
            6 months ago

            Oh golly gee willikers, I looked it up & you are 1000% correct. 🫠

            I bend over, firmly grab my ankles, and say ORANGE MAN SO VERY BAD, in accordance with the invisible ink on the US Constitution. Which only the most awesome liberal elites know about, the rest or us just meander around in the dark, waiting for them to scream at us & enlighten us on the one true way to political salvation. 🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌

      • Cyborganism@lemmy.ca
        0·
        6 months ago

        No I know about that.

        But what the fuck do trans have to do with the bourgeoisie???

        If anything most of the ones I know are anticapitalist.

        • Chamomile 🐑@furry.engineer
          0·
          6 months ago

          @cyborganism @GammaGames There’s a particular category of “leftist” who, to put it gently, have a greatly simplified view of the world in which “the only war is class war.” They regard social issues such as anti-racism, feminism, queer liberation as distractions from the “true” cause of bringing about a new economic system - unimportant at best, active interference invented by the ruling class at worst.

          Basically, they’re narrow-minded bigots.

          • wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            0·
            6 months ago

            I’d argue that they aren’t entirely wrong, just coming to the entirely wrong conclusion.

            It absolutely benefits the 1% to have people fighting about stuff that keeps them out if the crosshairs, but the solution isn’t to be an asshole and stamp out any attempts at progress in culture and acceptance. The solution is to accept people and progress cultural stuff faster to unite people better.

            If you’re going to be militant about the class war, don’t you want as many allies as possible? Within reason of course, don’t want bigoted assholes.

            • The Quuuuuill@slrpnk.netEnglish
              0·
              6 months ago

              That’s the thing. Dessalines and Nutomic are the bigoted assholes the rest of us should be telling to fuck right off because they’re getting in the way of our class awakening. They think they’re adovocating for true liberation when their way of going about it slows things down. They are tools of capital holders when they pull shit like this

            • Chamomile 🐑@furry.engineer
              0·
              6 months ago

              @wizardbeard Oh yeah, totally - it’s not like the 1% doesn’t use these things to its advantage. Don’t take my comment as making the mistake of ignoring that. It’s just myopic at best to act like other forms of oppression can be ignored as long as we ensure economic liberation. And a lot of the people spouting that opinion… well, there’s a reason they think bigotry isn’t a problem - they suck.

          • The Cuuuuube@beehaw.orgEnglish
            0·
            6 months ago

            Which is so fucking dumb because they’re actively resisting the class awakening that we all need to have. That these divisions and culture wars we have are a distraction from the true communal love we could all experience and push to topple the hierarchical system. These fucking regressive morons are standing in the way of their own revolution

            • XNX@slrpnk.net
              0·
              6 months ago

              Not sure how that relates? Thats just Europeans being racist which is extremely common and irritating

              • pearable@lemmy.ml
                0·
                6 months ago

                I think all bigotry can be used as a wedge to divide working people from their own interests. I wouldn’t be surprised if Romani bigotry was used to control Europeans in the past. However, I think immigration is the most important wedge in the European context

  • Beaver@lemmy.caOPEnglish
    0·
    6 months ago

    How are you going to get your first developer funded in donations when you say stuff like that?

    • Juniper (she/her) 🫐@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      0·
      6 months ago

      Yep, this just prevented me, a trans woman, from ever donating to the main Lemmy project. I’m severely disappointed. I’ll donate only to good instances with leadership I know aren’t phobic.

      This literally ignores the experiences of trans people, all of whom lost something in order to transition, and many everything. The system is being weaponized against us at every level. What an ignorant thing to say.

      • Beaver@lemmy.caOPEnglish
        0·
        6 months ago

        Right! Think about how two-spirited folks were loved and supported by the First Nations communities for thousands of years before Europeans stepped foot into turtle island.

        • The Cuuuuube@beehaw.orgEnglish
          0·
          6 months ago

          Bruuuh it frustrates me to no end how capitalism creates a culture of emptiness by scooping out of us all sense of community, compassion, and humanity. It takes everything worth living for away from us and holds it hostage from us, telling us we can have it if we spend the money, give it to the capital holders.

      • The Cuuuuube@beehaw.orgEnglish
        0·
        6 months ago

        Weird fucking thing for a leftist to do, isn’t it? Dessalines and Nutomic both claimed it was because they were free speech absolutists. Meanwhile saying China is performing a genocide against the Uigher people is a gaurunteed instaban with the explanation “orientalism”

        • poVoq@slrpnk.net
          0·
          6 months ago

          The actual claim was to keep these people on that instance to make defederation easier. Which doesn’t work, but AFAIK no one ever claimed to be “free speech absolutists”.

        • millie@beehaw.orgEnglish
          0·
          6 months ago

          That’s because they’re not leftists. Most of the tankies on Lemmy probably aren’t. I’m sure some of them are people who get swept up in the tide of favoring mockery over patience and compassion while actually believing leftist political positions, but it’s pretty clear what the bulk of them are doing.

          They’re corporate or authoritarian government plants trying to break the coalition of left and center. They’re doing everything they can to make both look unreasonable and unhinged in the eyes of the other. Demotivating leftists from endorsing centrists who lean their way, while making centrists feel targeted and deeided by the left.

          It’s way easier to break coalitions and sew chaos than it is to drive engagement and unity. It literally takes less thinking, less precision, and less strategy.

        • BlackRose@slrpnk.net
          0·
          6 months ago

          I just found out that beehaw is not on their list of 579 Servers. Does anyone know why? Today the list is not called recomended instances anymore.

    • VirtualOdour@sh.itjust.works
      0·
      6 months ago

      People who don’t like free speech on here are sorely confused as to the purpose of activitypub and lemmy, they were explicitly designed to be censorship resistant so that people could express controversial opinions without being silenced - they already understand that people who dislike free speech won’t support them, thankfully this project doesn’t need much support and there are some free speech supporters that do donate even if they don’t agree with every single opinion of every dev involved.

  • dohpaz42@lemmy.worldEnglish
    0·
    6 months ago

    I wonder if the lead developers of Lemmy, and other federated software, who are also admins and mods of instances and communities, realize that they too are part of the bourgeoisie they rail so hard against? Then again, they probably have a whole gymnastics routine for how they somehow are not part of the aristocracy.

    • goat@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      0·
      6 months ago

      They are. They don’t think about it.

      Nutomic is a nepo-baby who feels guilty about being rich and rightfully so, ah, but he doesn’t feel guilty to the point of giving it away.

    • bastion@feddit.nl
      0·
      6 months ago

      Hot take. Let’s just say that anyone who makes anything anyone else uses and feels dependent on is a part of the bourgeoise now, amirite?

  • Etterra@lemmy.world
    0·
    6 months ago

    Because why would the bourgeoisie want the masses fighting each other? Though he’s wrong anyway because the elite didn’t promote anything that doesn’t benefit them financially. While that includes turning the poor against each other, it also includes selling anything in any form to anyone regardless of want moral, ethical, or practical factors. If they can get you to pay them money for something with a rainbow on it, congrats, they’re pro-lgbtq. Because they’ve got another subsidiary that will sell the hate-fueled psychopaths that want to kill you their Bibles and.

      • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
        0·
        6 months ago

        Is it a pre-requisite to be a smug douche if you’re going to run a social media platform now?

        Man… I miss Tom.

        • Comment105@lemm.ee
          0·
          6 months ago

          I use Jerboa and have already blocked the @lemmy.ml instance. There were calls to make that a thing with lent itself but I don’t think it ever happened.

          There were also suggestions to do more of the defederstions in a “soft” way, by means of adding the instance to the block list of any user on the instance that wants to defederate it. Reversible by any user that wants full access with their main user.

          From what little I understand about how Lemmy works and what the goals of the Fediverse are, this sounded like a much better way to do things.

          • The Cuuuuube@beehaw.orgEnglish
            0·
            6 months ago

            Lemmy’s options for blocking and restricting are too limited, and it’s also a bummer there’s not an option for providing a reason for a block or restriction in the federated instances view. I think it all ties into Lemmy’s issue with “moderating tools are not an emphasis”

        • The Cuuuuube@beehaw.orgEnglish
          0·
          6 months ago

          I used to be hopeful for Lemmy.world. that time has passed me by. Now they’re in the good riddance pile with sh.itjust.works. I’ve come to respect the beehaw admins the more time passes and the more it becomes obvious that was the move. Those instances don’t take moderation serious, and as a result they’re festering danger zones. You get a lot of good takes from Lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works users who don’t realize instance choice says something about you, but the overall tone of those two instances and Lemm.ee is not an overall tone I’m interested in experiencing as my general instances

          • Comment105@lemm.ee
            0·
            6 months ago

            I’m sorry if I misunderstand, but are you saying a good instance heavily engages in tone policing?

            If I’m not misunderstanding, I hope you realize that would imply you only want to ever read a word from like the gentlest 2‰ of humanity.

  • sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al
    0·
    6 months ago

    How is that a stance on transgender people? This seems like you’ve gone fishing for something controversial for a hatchet job.

    Just to be clear, the person in question is, I assume, the Algerian boxer, who was born female.

  • vga@sopuli.xyz
    0·
    6 months ago

    FTFY: Nutomic’s stance on “rooting out” people who don’t exercise liturgy exactly as you want them to. And people scoff at the idea of this being a fundamentalist religion, even though it uses the exact same social patterns.

    Do I get to be in this shinigami shit now? Is there a way to mute all people who use that thing, or can I just wait for them to mute me? Either way seems like a win-win to me.