therewhere two reasons, the first and was that NATO kept saber rattleing about the Ukraine joining, however it was admitted now that that was never a serious plan, and ontop of that, and importantly they where not. NATO was also desined to be a threat to the USSR and now Russia, as can be seen that both the USSR and Russia has tried multiple times to join NATO and being declined entry.
The second and more important was the contenuing genocide the Ukrainian government was carying out in dunbas and the violation of the Minsk Accords.
I think it depends what we mean by “ally”. One could make a quite convincing argument that Ukraine became a Western “ally” as a result of the Euromaidan coup in 2013.
When you forcefully coup and overthrow a nation’s elected government and install a puppet regime, you don’t gain an ally, you gain an asset. NATO is an Alliance, the Warsaw pact was an alliance, the Ukraine is a proxy state. But keep making a fool of yourself.
Lol, and when Russia installed Viktor Yanukovych? The orange revolution was a response to the corruption of the 2004 election combined with Russia installing puppet governments in the eastern province.
It’s the same shit they’ve done in transnistria abkhazia and south ossetia.
Yanukovych wasn’t a Russian asset, that’s wrong and racist AF. He tactically wanted reconciliation with Russia. He wasn’t an asset bootlicker like you are for UkraNazis.
Lol, oh yeah I forgot that Turkish people are Slavic…?
You can be as academically dishonest as you like, but if you’re making up claims like ethnic cleansing you should be able to back it up with some body of evidence.
spate of abuses, including abductions, unlawful detention, ill-treatment, robbery, extortion, and possible executions committed by the Aidar battalion. Some of these amount to war crimes.
"some of the things that i want to say here will not differentiate from the other comments in this thread, though as a russian citizen and cprf member i hope that it will offer some insight for western readers.
i do not support the current administrations internal actions, as capitalism has brought nothing but injustice, suffering, poverty, crime and corruption. but i absolutely do support its foreign policy, especially regarding the ukrainian question. the putin government has evolved to become one of the most effective anti-imperialist forces on the planet and even if you ignore the terrible nature of the terrorist zelensky-regime one has to be grateful to our military for fighting the biggest enemy of mankind, america.
so lets detail the happenings that led to the current situation:
(it may be important to note that the current russian administration pushes a slightly different narrative due to sadly being a right wing state)
-Banderite Collaborators parading in front of nazi officers
the Banderites (see picture), members of the fascist “organization of ukrainian nationalists” led by stepan andreyevich bandera were a gang of rapists and murderers who collaborated with the invading german hordes and assisted them by conducting acts of terror against civilians. It is important to note that popular support for them was close to zero.
after the victory of the heroic red army, the majority of those parasites fled to the west, predominantly to canada. they received funding from american and british intelligence agencies, which were more than happy to welcome “former” nazis into their own anti-communist ranks.
another subset of the banderites remained in the ukrainian ssr and conducted a campaign of terror and -
sabotage against the civilian population. their bloody deeds were supported by the cia and its european puppet agencies through the so called “operation aerodynamic”."
referendum on the preservation of the ussr. its results were ignored by the anti-communists
After the illegal and undemocratic dissolution of the ussr, the leaders of those fascist gangs were glorified by the ukrainian far-right, with support from the cia. efforts to further their “rehabilitation” were primarily directed by nazi expatriates in canada. outlets such as voice of america portrayed them as “heroes”.
results of the 2004 presidential election before cia intervention. this division between neonazi northwest and pro-russian southeast is visible to this day
in 2004, the west sabotaged the ukrainian presidential elections and installed their puppet, viktor andreyevich yushchenko, through a color revolution. he was a terrible leader, not only dismantling the remaining aspects of the ukrainian economy and managing to make life even more miserable than it already was, but also granting “hero of ukraine” status to banderite leaders and holocaust perpetrators stepan bandera and roman iosifovich shukhevich.
ukrainian neonazis in 2014
in 2014, america and the west orchestrated another coup, this time not even bothering to hide the involvement of neo-nazis. the new regime perpetrated unspeakable atrocities against the russian population, whom it consideres “subhuman,” as well as against ukrainian anti-fascists. in odessa alone, 39 people were burned alive in the local trade union building.
those developments led to the revolution in the predominantly russian populated donbass-area and the creation off the donetsk and lugansk peoples republics, as well as the referendum in crimea that led to the peninsula finally rejoining russia. from 2014 till 2022 the majority of humanitarian aid to the donbass republics came from the cprf.
the reason for the smo is the ukrainian western-aligned nazi regime violating the minsk accords by refusing to demilitarize, trying to join the fascist nato-block and murdering russian civilians for years on end. the russian government showed itself extremely lenient, to lenient even, as any sensible politician would have staged a military intervention much earlier.
if you need further proof for the tyrannical nature of the kievan regime just look at the fact that Zelensky has banned all opposition parties in his country, refuses to hold elections and effectively rules as a military dictator. furthermore he has outlawed the russian language, made any negotiation with the russian state illegal and is currently selling whatever is left of his country to the highest bidder.
combine all this with the fact that the west and its puppets need to always be opposed due to them being a cancer of humanity and youll get a pretty good picture of why to support the russian military."
ME:
Theses separatists on the border of Russia and Ukraine have been getting entire villages and settlements
wiped off the map in the hunt for them. They are revolting against Ukrainian Nationalist Nazis; which have been straight up obvious via tattoos and various other insignia on them. These bombings and shellings have been directly on the border of Russia after the agreements signed.
I too would gladly intervene and not only wipe the fucking Nazis off the face of the earth but because my people are being bombed by militants with U.S support after making agreements for demilitarization and a neutral state.
FROM: @[email protected]
I’ve answered this before. Copypastaing myself.
Honest question from a non-communist, based on your reply here. Does one need to support Putin to be a Marxist?
In a word, no. In a few more words, support for Russia (not Putin, as historical materialists don’t subscribe to great man theory) is only a partial, temporary, tactical one, in the context of imperialist liberation. Russia is still a capitalist state, though, so it’s a two stage strategy: first liberate colonized bourgeois states from colonizer states, and second revolution within those liberated bourgeois states.
Russia is an interesting case: it has already liberated itself from the post-Soviet “shock therapy” neocolonizers. This occurred during Putin’s administration, which is why he is especially hated by the US. So now the support for Russia is in the context of keeping the colonizers from recolonizing it, and supporting Russia to the extent that it helps other states liberate themselves. But Russia isn’t trying to “liberate” Ukraine, at least not all of Ukraine. It’s trying to resolve the genocidal attacks on the people of the Donbas, and it’s trying to resolve the imperialist military expansion at its border.
i hope that it will offer some insight for western readers.
Lol, as an Asian person it’s always hilarious to me that modern Russians like to think of themselves as non-western. Despite the fact that Russias expansion east was one of the largest acts of genocidal colonial expansions in human history, and they continue utilizing their asianic population as second class citizen cannon fodder. This is some that “Eurasian” ethno nationalist bullshit Putin is obsessed with.
do not support the current administrations internal actions, as capitalism has brought nothing but injustice, suffering, poverty, crime and corruption. but i absolutely do support its foreign policy, especially regarding the ukrainian question. the putin government has evolved to become one of the most effective anti-imperialist forces on the planet
Ahh yes, I know my government treats me horribly, but I’m sure it’s best for the Ukrainian people. Let’s do anti-imperialism by doing imperialism.
It’s funny how people utilize global systems theory without understanding that the theory doesn’t encompass movements like anti-imperialism. According to global systems theory there is no such thing as anti-imperialism, as it’s just capitalist countries duking it out to become the new imperial core.
“There are today no socialist systems in the world-economy any more than there are feudal systems because there is only one world system. It is a world-economy and it is by definition capitalist in form.” -Immanuel Wallerstein
Now I’m not saying that’s correct, but I’m also not utilizing a system that precludes anti-imperialism to justify my imperialism.
All of this is basically the academically dishonest fantastical fiction of Russian nationalism. “I sure do hate Putin’s domestic policy, now let me just praise his ethno national babbling for the next two pages”. Trust me bro, the revolution is coming as soon as we’re the new imperial core.
“Capitalism has grown into a world system of colonial oppression and of the financial strangulation of the overwhelming majority of the people of the world by a handful of “advanced” countries. And this “booty” is shared between two or three powerful world marauders armed to the teeth”…"who involve the whole world in their war over the sharing of their booty.”
You completely glossed over the fact that Ukraine broke two agreements on militarization and neutrality w NATO. You ignored the fact that Nazis/far-right nationalists have taken over the government entirely during that point with the aid of U.S institutions, violating the agreements in place. Separatists rise up, obviously dissatisfied with the direction of the country at the hand of right-wing nationalists who were banning the russian language (Whom a chunk of the country speaks) and banning opposition parties later on. Ukraine responds by cleansing and bombing the region entirely right on the borders of Russia right after breaking multiple agreements to which I fucking cited and gave you multiple sources on everything I am speaking right not from Davel.
It’s literally not imperialism. It’s interventionism, sure, but it’s intervening on a literal nascent fascist state proxy on their borders who broke multiple agreements already. You ignored that as well. Who is being “academically dishonest” here especially when you should know that “imperialism” isn’t when big nation fight small nation. Imperialism is better defined by the fact the United States has an economic stranglehold and hegemony on most of the third world and a military alliance with the developed nations who engage in that exploitation as well. Who has more military bases all over the world? Who controls trade? Who acts as the “World’s Police”? Who has the most incarcerated people in the world?
It’s not Russia, lmao.
By the fact that they’re fighting against that hegemony, they are being “anti-imperialist”. They aren’t seeking to become a new “core” in this instance because of what I mentioned above and in what you replied to that you ignored most of. Will they in the future? Likely, but most of us support China in that sense rather than the kinda support we hand Russia. By the way, most of us critically support Russia. We don’t think they’re actually gonna bring a “revolution” or any bullshit like that. Most of us just support the curb-stomping of nazi into the ground as always and the decay of the “core” in entirety.
America locked in this, with Israel, with China gives less pressure on exploited nations and a chance for them to break away from U.S hegemony. We are seeing this with BRICS. Liberation becomes possible and the Empire will grow weaker without territories to extract from as the nations are allowed to develop free from extraction. As for China? That would be great if they would take the “core”. No doubt they have problems, as all actually existing socialism does. I’m curious to see your criticisms of China, then.
You completely glossed over the fact that Ukraine broke two agreements on militarization and neutrality w NATO.
“agreement signed in 1997 between Ukraine and Russia, which fixed the principle of strategic partnership, the recognition of the inviolability of existing borders, and respect for territorial integrity and mutual commitment not to use its territory to harm the security of each other. The treaty prevents Ukraine and Russia from invading one another’s country respectively, and declaring war.[4] Due to the beginning of the Russo-Ukrainian War in 2014, Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko signed a decree not to extend the treaty on 19 September 2018.[5] The treaty consequently expired on 31 March 2019.[6][5]”
Or the Budapest Memorandum, where "The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine. "
You ignored the fact that Nazis/far-right nationalists have taken over the government entirely during that point with the aid of U.S institutions
Lol, nothing you have posted would lead me to believe that’s actually true.
Separatists rise up, obviously dissatisfied with the direction of the country at the hand of right-wing nationalists who were banning the russian language (Whom a chunk of the country speaks) and banning opposition parties later on.
Sure, the little green men were totally ukranian separatist and not Igor girkin…
Also, yeah when a country invaded you and kills a bunch of your civilians, there’s going to be a bunch of reactionary nationalism.
Russia has its fair share of nationalist Bull shit too.
Ukraine responds by cleansing and bombing the region entirely right on the borders of Russia right after breaking multiple agreements to which I fucking cited and gave you multiple sources
Lol, cleansing? There have been multiple investigations that have proved there was more violence coming from “separatist” than ukranian.
It’s literally not imperialism. It’s interventionism, sure,
Lol, you sound just like America!
you should know that “imperialism” isn’t when big nation fight small nation. Imperialism is better defined by the fact the United States has an economic stranglehold and hegemony on most of the third world and a military alliance with the developed nations who engage in that exploitation as well.
I see, so only the imperial core can do imperialism… Everything else is just sparkling intervention. So Germany didn’t do any imperialism when they took half of Europe because England was the hegemony of the day? Imperial Japan didn’t do imperialism because they were a peripheral country?
Who has more military bases all over the world? Who controls trade? Who acts as the “World’s Police”? Who has the most incarcerated people in the world?
I’m not defending American imperialism… Yeah, they are imperialist, but just because they are a source of human misery doesn’t mean they have an absolute monopoly of violence. It doesn’t mean there can’t be a Nazi Germany and a Japanese empire.
By the fact that they’re fighting against that hegemony, they are being “anti-imperialist”.
Only if you completely change the understanding of imperialism to the point where you don’t have a definition that isn’t just America.
They aren’t seeking to become a new “core” in this instance because of what I mentioned above and in what you replied to that you ignored most of.
Because it a laughable and ignorable point…
Likely, but most of us support China in that sense rather than the kinda support we hand Russia. By the way, most of us critically support Russia.
By regurgitating their propaganda?
ost of us just support the curb-stomping of nazi into the ground as always and the decay of the “core” in entirety.
Ukraine isn’t filled with a bunch of Nazi… Like any western nation, including Russia, there are reactionary idiots who hate communist and love fascist. That doesn’t mean the entire country is fascist neonazi, the fact that you think there is mind-blowing considering how many ukranians fought the Nazi.
America locked in this, with Israel, with China gives less pressure on exploited nations and a chance for them to break away from U.S hegemony. We are seeing this with BRICS.
Or, it just creates more and more war because people keep supporting far right governments.
I don’t think people understand that global system theory is just theory, and a theory entirely dependent on the continuation of capitalism. If you actually believe in a hegemony as it’s written in global systems theory, then it precludes the chance a country like China will ever overthrow it with anything other than another capitalist hegemony.
I’m curious to see your criticisms of China, then.
I don’t like that their SOC are profit seeking entities being ran like private equity?
“Lol nothing you posted would actually make me believe that is true”
You ignored 10+ sources (variety of them too; we got western media, aljazeera, grayzone, etc), two infographics (one that was showing purely the demographic split in Ukraine to back up materially what I said as the material conditions that began the outbreak/seperatists) and a personal account from someone in Russia using the good ol’ “Da Russian is just making up excuses! I’m Asian so I can speak on Russians like I’m an expert, I find them funny!” (heavily paraphrasing of course but you aren’t actually comprehending anything I’m saying or something is firing wrong up there) which makes me question your feelings on Russians as a whole.
“Sure, the little green men were totally ukranian separatist and not Igor girkin…”
Yeah, none of this happened before “little green men” were being reported on by Western media at all. Once again, proof you didn’t read what I said.
“Russia has its fair share of nationalist Bull shit too.”
Critical support. What is it? You seemingly cannot understand the concept. We don’t support their nationalist bullshit or their government but solely their anti-imperialist actions against the largest hegemony. Second time I’ve repeated this.
“Lol, cleansing? There have been multiple investigations that have proved there was more violence coming from “separatist” than ukranian.”
Burden of proof. I offered sources, citations, etc. Where is yours on this now? Seems like a very specific, easy to find study. Where is it? I offered multiple citations, I expect multiple. Giddy up.
“I see, so only the imperial core can do imperialism… Everything else is just sparkling intervention. So Germany didn’t do any imperialism when they took half of Europe because England was the hegemony of the day? Imperial Japan didn’t do imperialism because they were a peripheral country?”
No. You need to re-read what I said and definitely read some Lenin if you’re gonna have bouts with communists. You have no idea what I’m even talking about while ignoring half of it. We don’t have the same definition of “imperialism” not that trying to explain it would matter. We are in the late stage of capitalism. Colonialism and imperialism have taken on new forms. Kings and queens are dead, the church is no longer in power. There is no new “fronts” to exploit, only nations to control and extract from. The more modern history of interventions in Latin America, control of North Africa and Vietnam by the French (their actions in Africa to this day) and how long England held onto it’s colonies are examples of that.
On top of that, you also are repeatedly ignoring my point that it was indeed an intervention: see below.
“Within days of the February 2014 Euromaidan Revolution that culminated with the ouster of President Viktor Yanukovych and ushered in a firmly pro-Western government, the newly appointed head of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU), Valentyn Nalyvaichenko, reportedly proposed a “three-way partnership” with the CIA and MI6, the UK’s foreign intelligence service. Ukrainian security officials gradually proved their value to the U.S. by feeding the CIA intelligence on Russia, including “secret documents about the Russian Navy,” leading to the establishment of CIA bases in Ukraine to coordinate activities against Russia and various training programs for Ukrainian commandos and other elite units.”
You’re literally brain-dead if you think western intervention hasn’t been going on in Ukraine before Maidan/leading up to Maidan and before even separatists and “little green men”. Not to mention the worlds leading hegemony’s intelligence agency has a fucking history of this. Literally in almost every nation. Operation Gladio, for example. Normally, there would be no proof or very little proof in declassified documents but if you’re going to ignore a C.I.A asset being placed into the new government days after it’s inception and also ignore the fact that they literally invited the intelligence apparatus in then I literally cannot help you understand a single thing I’m saying. You have three other stupid fucking idiots who agree with this stupid shit. Combine that with right-wing nationalist take-over that HISTORICALLY was the kind of organization the C.I.A funded (Contras, for example) you would have reasonable conditions for separatists to revolt. Even if they did do “more damage” why the fuck would I care when they’re fighting against a C.I.A-backed right-wing nationalist government? Like are you listening to yourself?
“I’m not defending American imperialism… Yeah, they are imperialist, but just because they are a source of human misery doesn’t mean they have an absolute monopoly of violence. It doesn’t mean there can’t be a Nazi Germany and a Japanese empire.”
They do have a monopoly on violence because America has the most military bases around the world, has the largest record of interventions/military actions (compared to the one Russia is being demonized for) and completely controls the financial levers of most of the world through the petrodollar. Russia is in Syria and Africa with small mercenary contingents/PMC groups. America has literal military bases strapped with fighters, bombers and garrisons in almost every country. Sometimes multiple. A good chunk right on the border of “domestic enemies”. You saying there “can’t be a nazi germany or japan” too is essentially graying out the scales of actual, material power these nations have. Russia isn’t nearly as big of a threat as the United States. The United States has a far larger death toll on it than Russia has. Iraq, Afghanistan, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Latin American interventions; I can keep going! But yeah, we should really be vexing over Russia right now and condemning them instead of seeing Ukraine for what it actually is.
You’re regurgitating their propaganda and taking their views established by the U.S State department. There is no “critical support”. You really believe everything the U.S and Ukraine says about Russia, don’t you? I have yet to see a difference.
“Only if you completely change the understanding of imperialism to the point where you don’t have a definition that isn’t just America.”
Unironically what you’re doing as you’ve seemingly never read Lenin. You’re on a Marxist-Leninist board. Your definition of Imperialism is rooted, repeatedly by what you type, in the definitions of mid-1800s geopolitics. We use Lenin. It’s fine not to believe in it, but I can actually ignore what you say on imperialism because you aren’t even engaging with what the actual theory says. Which is something I see repeating; I will engage with you and actually talk your points down and explain my positions further. You repeatedly have gone “Nuh-uh. Nope. What sources? I don’t believe them.” in out-right rejection. Typical liberal left-com bullshit.
“By regurgitating their propaganda?”
What propaganda? Every nation has propaganda. Some of it is more true than others. Let me guess, you think China is a giant sweatshop of a gorillion billion people all slaving away to make iphone? Yeah, propaganda. Yeah, typical left-com position. Do you understand how their economy works? Their provincial system?
“Ukraine isn’t filled with a bunch of Nazi… Like any western nation, including Russia, there are reactionary idiots who hate communist and love fascist. That doesn’t mean the entire country is fascist neonazi, the fact that you think there is mind-blowing considering how many ukranians fought the Nazi.”
My person in Christ they removed Lenin statues and replaced them with Bandera. I pointed out western intervention. notfromkaliningrad pointed out how they banned communist parties and the Russian language. There are slews of pictures, from BOTH sides of Ukrainian soldiers having Nazi tattoos beyond just “Azov”. The difference between Russia and Ukraine on that part is that one group of Nazis has support from the global hegemon’s intelligence agency. The other is a PMC group that got liquidated. Sure is a difference in how they treat them; not that Russia is justified either. Once again, critical support. Something you keep tossing to the side.
"Or, it just creates more and more war because people keep supporting far right governments.
I don’t think people understand that global system theory is just theory, and a theory entirely dependent on the continuation of capitalism. If you actually believe in a hegemony as it’s written in global systems theory, then it precludes the chance a country like China will ever overthrow it with anything other than another capitalist hegemony."
Because China isn’t a capitalist country; the entire private industry is completely locked in and guarded by a literal vanguard party that controls the profit-seeking for the building of productive forces to serve national interests. Dictatorship of the proletariat. That is why their people are experiencing monumental increases in quality of life in the past 50-60 years compared to the United States and are leading in academic submissions/technological standards compared to the west as well as manufacturing. Their economy continues to grow and has been growing for years straight with only small hiccups. Do you know what Dengism is?
You ignored 10+ sources (variety of them too; we got western media, aljazeera, grayzone, etc), two infographics (one that was showing purely the demographic split in Ukraine to back up materially what I said as the material conditions that began the outbreak/seperatists)
Lol, because they aren’t supportive of your argument. It’s always the same tactics, just add an overwhelming amount of titles that seem to support your argument and hope the person doesn’t actually read them.
When you do actually read the sources, which I doubt you have, as several of them are broken… They don’t actually support the overall argument. The first source is a great example. You are claiming that there is a huge neonazi problem, when in reality the article reports that the far right party wasn’t even able to get the needed 5% of votes to become part of their parliament. Which is ironic, because Russias far right party has nearly 8% of the vote.
Other articles are critical of some of Ukraine’s far right treatment of lgbtq community, which is valid. However, it’s still a step up from Russia where it’s fucking illegal.
“Da Russian is just making up excuses! I’m Asian so I can speak on Russians like I’m an expert, I find them funny!” (heavily paraphrasing of course but you aren’t actually comprehending anything I’m saying or something is firing wrong up there) which makes me question your feelings on Russians as a whole.
Lol, I guess I hit a nerve with the whole not being white thing. What I said is that I think it’s funny they consider themselves eastern… I think being actually eastern may have something to do with that.
Yeah, none of this happened before “little green men” were being reported on by Western media at all. Once again, proof you didn’t read what I said.
So if it didn’t happen before Girkin… Then that should leave you to believe Girkin may have had something to do with it? Or do we just not follow logic anymore?
Critical support. What is it? You seemingly cannot understand the concept.
their anti-imperialist actions against the largest hegemony. Second time I’ve repeated this.
Again, what theory leads you to believe that supporting right winged nationalist is an act of anti-imperialism? Are you coming up with this yourself? Any leftist philosopher or historical accounts that support this view?
Burden of proof. I offered sources, citations, etc.
Lol, you offered a small article that didn’t mention ethnic cleansing. Claiming things like burglary and political kidnapping were equivalent to ethnic cleansing.
But here ya go “Following the invasion, Ukraine brought a case before the International Court of Justice (ICJ) to challenge Russia’s accusation. During the proceedings of Ukraine v. Russian Federation, the ICJ said it had found no evidence of genocide. The International Association of Genocide Scholars also rejected Russia’s accusation.[2] Further reports by 30 legal and genocide scholars warned that Russia’s accusations are part of the “accusation in a mirror” technique, ultimately revealing the Russian incitement to commit genocide against Ukrainians”.
In the references, there’s about 25 different sources you are free to pick through.
. You need to re-read what I said and definitely read some Lenin if you’re gonna have bouts with communists. You have no idea what I’m even talking about while ignoring half of it.
Lol, Ive read plenty of lenin. Just because I disagree with your interpretation of how to fight against imperialism doesn’t mean I can the a socialist.
We don’t have the same definition of “imperialism” not that trying to explain it would matter.
Yeah, something that come across quite a bit with arm chair communist is that their definition of imperialism changes based on their immediate need.
Lenins definition of imperialism actually included a competition of the great powers, leading to the domination of their less economically advanced neighbors. Which describes the situation in Ukraine pretty well to me.
Now please, tell me about the definition of imperialism that precludes imperial competition, or that flames there is only one great nation.
“Within days of the February 2014 Euromaidan Revolution that culminated with the ouster of President Viktor Yanukovych and ushered in a firmly pro-Western government, the newly appointed head of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU), Valentyn Nalyvaichenko, reportedly proposed a “three-way partnership” with the CIA and MI6, the UK’s foreign intelligence service. Ukrainian security officials gradually proved their value to the U.S. by feeding the CIA intelligence on Russia, including “secret documents about the Russian Navy,” leading to the establishment of CIA bases in Ukraine to coordinate activities against Russia and various training programs for Ukrainian commandos and other elite units.”
Lol, this is the article that causes multiple people to quit this particular think tank because "Cirincione said he “fundamentally” disagrees with Quincy experts who “completely ignore the dangers and the horrors of Russia’s invasion and occupation and focus almost exclusively on criticism of the United States, NATO, and Ukraine”.
The article is proposing that a gladios style CIA project from the 40’ is basically responsible for installing the new government. In reality the nationalist party that that project did support isn’t even popular, it literally only got 1.6% of the vote in 2019.
You’re literally brain-dead if you think western intervention hasn’t been going on in Ukraine before Maidan/leading up to Maidan and before even separatists and “little green men”.
And you are brain dead to think that Russia hasn’t been intervening in their government and economics since the country came into independence.
Just because the CIA has officers basically everywhere doesn’t mean that they are responsible for everything that happens in the country. It’s pretty easy to imagine why ukranians wanted to eid themselves of Russian oligarchs controlling so much of their means of production.
They do have a monopoly on violence because America has the most military bases around the world, has the largest record of interventions/military actions (compared to the one Russia is being demonized for) and completely controls the financial levers of most of the world through the petrodollar.
Lol, again. I said total monopoly. The fact that you admit Russia is doing the same but on a smaller scale is my point. I can admit they are both horrible, while you are stuck defending imperialism.
Also if America has complet control of the financial levers of the entire world the Russian economy wouldn’t be able to go on the war front.
Russia is in Syria and Africa with small mercenary contingents/PMC groups. America has literal military bases
Not to mention the separatist colonies they’ve been militaraly supporting all over eastern Europe…
America has literal military bases strapped with fighters, bombers and garrisons in almost every country. Sometimes multiple.
And that is bad… therefore another great power doing the same to economically disadvaged countries is…also bad.
You’re regurgitating their propaganda and taking their views established by the U.S State department. There is no “critical support”. You really believe everything the U.S and Ukraine says about Russia, don’t you? I have yet to see a difference.
Why would I even critically support a right winged nationalist country? My support goes to the people defending their homeland from an invasion that’s killed tens of thousands of people.
Plus, it’s not like many countries have really whole heatedly defended the reasons behind Russias invasion anyways.
Your definition of Imperialism is rooted, repeatedly by what you type, in the definitions of mid-1800s geopolitics. We use Lenin.
Lol, lenin didn’t talk about imperial cores or a conflict with an overwhelming hegemony that validates empowering right winged nationalist. His definition literally talks about competition between Great nations duking it out to exploit less powerful countries.
You need to read some lenin yourself it seems.
person in Christ they removed Lenin statues and replaced them with Bandera.
And liberals in America tore down statues of the Confederacy… Does that mean America’s no longer racist? There are better metrics to measure the popularity of right winged extremists, you are ignoring them because it suits your narrative.
There are slews of pictures, from BOTH sides of Ukrainian soldiers having Nazi tattoos beyond just “Azov”.
And there are plenty of Russian ultras that have the same Nazi tattoos. It’s almost like right winged nationalist reactionary groups are common in post soviet states.
one group of Nazis has support from the global hegemon’s intelligence agency. The other is a PMC group that got liquidated.
Lol, by that definition both groups have been liquidated.
Once again, critical support. Something you keep tossing to the side.
I don’t think you understand what critical support means…
Because China isn’t a capitalist country; the entire private industry is completely locked in and guarded by a literal vanguard party that controls the profit-seeking for the building of productive forces to serve national interests.
My dude, I’m not saying that global systems theory is correct. You are. You are utiliIng the theory to promote the idea that any attack on the imperial core is anti-imperialism.
My point is that the person who invented global systems theory doesn’t believe in socialism in regards to global economy. The idea of an imperial core is reliant on all nations participating in global trade with self interest being the number one priority.
Lol, as an Asian person it’s always hilarious to me that modern Russians like to think of themselves as non-western. Despite the fact that Russias expansion east was one of the largest acts of genocidal colonial expansions in human history, and they continue utilizing their asianic population as second class citizen cannon fodder.
Behold, the lemm.ee banger with some mild undertones of racism (“I’m Asian so I find this part of Russians funny and can speak on them confidently…”) and the assumption that Imperial Russia somehow transcended through the Soviet Union into the Federation. Some truly giga-lib shit I’d like to point out again that got you 4 seal-claps. Where does it mention that in World-Systems Theory?
they continue utilizing their asianic population as second class citizen cannon fodder.
The Soviet Union had some ecological disasters, that is for sure; but the conditions for Mongolians, Buryat, etc materially improved under their rule. Imperial Russia? Yeah no. There’s a reason the Bolsheviks came to power. But yeah it’s just all the same, right? Is that another thing you find “funny” about Russians? As for the Federation, no fucking shit. They’re nationalists. Why would they think of themselves non-western but draft/view eastern-territory soldiers as more expendable? Are you listening to yourself? Most of us support the Soviet Union and learned from it’s failures, support China; critically support Russia only in it’s fight against the global hegemony.
modern Russians like to think of themselves as non-western.
Where the fuck do you get this stuff? It’s a federation of multiple territories. Do you really think Moscow thinks of itself as non-western? Are you okay?
some mild undertones of racism (“I’m Asian so I find this part of Russians funny and can speak on them confidently…”)
Lol, ahh yes. I forgot that only white people are allowed to dictate who and who isn’t Asian… It’s not like the only time Russia has ever been significant in Asia’s history is when they are invading an asian country.
the assumption that Imperial Russia somehow transcended through the Soviet Union into the Federation.
That would be a valid rebuttal if Russia chauvinism hadn’t been present in all three governments. That’s like saying that America isn’t to blame for the crimes of the Confederacy because they created their own constitution.
Where does it mention that in World-Systems Theory?
Lol, so you don’t even know where the idea of imperial core or peripheral states comes from? This is the problem with people learning leftism from YouTube, you don’t realize where these concepts came from and how people are purposely misinterpreting them.
The Soviet Union had some ecological disasters, that is for sure; but the conditions for Mongolians, Buryat, etc materially improved under their rule.
Whereas Vladimir Lenin had supported and implemented policies of korenizatsiia (integration of non-Russian nationalities into the governments of their specific Soviet republics),[4] Joseph Stalin reversed much of the previous policies,[4] signing off on orders to deport and exile multiple ethnic-linguistic groups brandished as “traitors to the Fatherland”, including the Balkars, Crimean Tatars, Chechens, Ingush, Karachays, Kalmyks, Koreans and Meskhetian Turks, with those, who survived the collective deportation to Siberia or Central Asia, were legally designated “special settlers”, meaning that they were officially second-class citizens with few rights and were confined within small perimeters.[8][4]
As for the Federation, no fucking shit. They’re nationalists. Why would they think of themselves non-western but draft/view eastern-territory soldiers as more expendable? Are you listening to yourself? Most of us support the Soviet Union and learned from it’s failures, support China; critically support Russia only in it’s fight against the global hegemony.
Lol, so now you’re agreeing with me? My god, flip floping like a dying fish.
So by critical support, you mean only criticize after defending all their propaganda for hours.
My problem is that there is no evidence to support the idea that fighting the hegemony by supporting right wing governments actually does anything to support leftist causes. Seems like we’re just causing the death and misery of poor people who end up being the actual victims.
Where the fuck do you get this stuff? It’s a federation of multiple territories.
Lol, who’s political core has always been run by Europeans, mostly in 2-3 cities all in western Russia.
Do you really think Moscow thinks of itself as non-western? Are you okay?
Lol, yes. Russian nationalist are attempting to label themselves as Eurasian, so they can make claims about western chauvinism, pretending like they aren’t part of the problem.
Proxy and ally, gotta distinguish between those two on some level here, I would say; if only to make a point about the differences between mutual benefit and a predatory relationship. Anti-imperialist people in Russia are aligned with anti-imperialist people in China for good material reasons, but are still distinct peoples, cultures, and interests outside of that allegiance to the same anti-imperialist fight. Ukraine has no good reason to be allying with the US and throwing its people to their deaths, in order to fight Russia; its an act of destroying itself upon Russia in a way that only benefits its masters, not itself. The two have tried to broker peace before and had the west sabotage it.
Unless you want to argue allyship between western neo-nazis and Ukrainian neo-nazis, then I guess you could say there’s some kind of allying? But clearly, then, not the kind of allying a person would want to be endorsing.
It’s madness how they’ve been able to condition the West that we can just keep attacking Russia militarily with no consequences.
I mean, by that logic isn’t it madness for Russia to assume they can attack a western ally with no consequences?
Ukraine wasn’t an “ally” until the invasion made them a useful pawn to bleed Russia.
But, I thought Russia invaded because they were going to join NATO… So which is it?
If mental gymnastics ever goes to the Olympics, I’m sure you guys would dominate.
therewhere two reasons, the first and was that NATO kept saber rattleing about the Ukraine joining, however it was admitted now that that was never a serious plan, and ontop of that, and importantly they where not. NATO was also desined to be a threat to the USSR and now Russia, as can be seen that both the USSR and Russia has tried multiple times to join NATO and being declined entry.
The second and more important was the contenuing genocide the Ukrainian government was carying out in dunbas and the violation of the Minsk Accords.
Deepthroat that nazi boot
I think it depends what we mean by “ally”. One could make a quite convincing argument that Ukraine became a Western “ally” as a result of the Euromaidan coup in 2013.
Indeed, which is why they’ve yet to do so.
Lol, Ukraine isn’t an western ally because you practice self hypnosis.
On what grounds is the Ukraine a western “ally”, according to you? Because all I see is “proxy”
So you exclusively argue in semantics?
When you forcefully coup and overthrow a nation’s elected government and install a puppet regime, you don’t gain an ally, you gain an asset. NATO is an Alliance, the Warsaw pact was an alliance, the Ukraine is a proxy state. But keep making a fool of yourself.
Lol, and when Russia installed Viktor Yanukovych? The orange revolution was a response to the corruption of the 2004 election combined with Russia installing puppet governments in the eastern province.
It’s the same shit they’ve done in transnistria abkhazia and south ossetia.
Yanukovych wasn’t a Russian asset, that’s wrong and racist AF. He tactically wanted reconciliation with Russia. He wasn’t an asset bootlicker like you are for UkraNazis.
You’re a windowlicker.
You replaced your brain with a swastika.
By that logic isn’t it madness for the Ukraine to assume they can attack an ethnic group with no consequences?
Ahh yes, eastern Slavic people are attacking eastern Slavic people…
Clearly a hate crime with no material context. /S
So it’s not a hate crime as long as you belong to the same language family. Don’t tell this guy about the Balkan wars, lmao.
Lol, oh yeah I forgot that Turkish people are Slavic…?
You can be as academically dishonest as you like, but if you’re making up claims like ethnic cleansing you should be able to back it up with some body of evidence.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2014/09/ukraine-must-stop-ongoing-abuses-and-war-crimes-pro-ukrainian-volunteer-forces/
Totally the same as ethnic cleansing…
UkraNazi bootlicker
Maybe not if you push context into a deep-space vacuum chamber.
FROM @[email protected]
"some of the things that i want to say here will not differentiate from the other comments in this thread, though as a russian citizen and cprf member i hope that it will offer some insight for western readers.
i do not support the current administrations internal actions, as capitalism has brought nothing but injustice, suffering, poverty, crime and corruption. but i absolutely do support its foreign policy, especially regarding the ukrainian question. the putin government has evolved to become one of the most effective anti-imperialist forces on the planet and even if you ignore the terrible nature of the terrorist zelensky-regime one has to be grateful to our military for fighting the biggest enemy of mankind, america.
so lets detail the happenings that led to the current situation:
(it may be important to note that the current russian administration pushes a slightly different narrative due to sadly being a right wing state)
-Banderite Collaborators parading in front of nazi officers the Banderites (see picture), members of the fascist “organization of ukrainian nationalists” led by stepan andreyevich bandera were a gang of rapists and murderers who collaborated with the invading german hordes and assisted them by conducting acts of terror against civilians. It is important to note that popular support for them was close to zero.
after the victory of the heroic red army, the majority of those parasites fled to the west, predominantly to canada. they received funding from american and british intelligence agencies, which were more than happy to welcome “former” nazis into their own anti-communist ranks.
another subset of the banderites remained in the ukrainian ssr and conducted a campaign of terror and - sabotage against the civilian population. their bloody deeds were supported by the cia and its european puppet agencies through the so called “operation aerodynamic”."
referendum on the preservation of the ussr. its results were ignored by the anti-communists
After the illegal and undemocratic dissolution of the ussr, the leaders of those fascist gangs were glorified by the ukrainian far-right, with support from the cia. efforts to further their “rehabilitation” were primarily directed by nazi expatriates in canada. outlets such as voice of america portrayed them as “heroes”.
results of the 2004 presidential election before cia intervention. this division between neonazi northwest and pro-russian southeast is visible to this day
in 2004, the west sabotaged the ukrainian presidential elections and installed their puppet, viktor andreyevich yushchenko, through a color revolution. he was a terrible leader, not only dismantling the remaining aspects of the ukrainian economy and managing to make life even more miserable than it already was, but also granting “hero of ukraine” status to banderite leaders and holocaust perpetrators stepan bandera and roman iosifovich shukhevich. ukrainian neonazis in 2014
in 2014, america and the west orchestrated another coup, this time not even bothering to hide the involvement of neo-nazis. the new regime perpetrated unspeakable atrocities against the russian population, whom it consideres “subhuman,” as well as against ukrainian anti-fascists. in odessa alone, 39 people were burned alive in the local trade union building.
those developments led to the revolution in the predominantly russian populated donbass-area and the creation off the donetsk and lugansk peoples republics, as well as the referendum in crimea that led to the peninsula finally rejoining russia. from 2014 till 2022 the majority of humanitarian aid to the donbass republics came from the cprf.
the reason for the smo is the ukrainian western-aligned nazi regime violating the minsk accords by refusing to demilitarize, trying to join the fascist nato-block and murdering russian civilians for years on end. the russian government showed itself extremely lenient, to lenient even, as any sensible politician would have staged a military intervention much earlier.
if you need further proof for the tyrannical nature of the kievan regime just look at the fact that Zelensky has banned all opposition parties in his country, refuses to hold elections and effectively rules as a military dictator. furthermore he has outlawed the russian language, made any negotiation with the russian state illegal and is currently selling whatever is left of his country to the highest bidder. combine all this with the fact that the west and its puppets need to always be opposed due to them being a cancer of humanity and youll get a pretty good picture of why to support the russian military."
ME: Theses separatists on the border of Russia and Ukraine have been getting entire villages and settlements wiped off the map in the hunt for them. They are revolting against Ukrainian Nationalist Nazis; which have been straight up obvious via tattoos and various other insignia on them. These bombings and shellings have been directly on the border of Russia after the agreements signed.
I too would gladly intervene and not only wipe the fucking Nazis off the face of the earth but because my people are being bombed by militants with U.S support after making agreements for demilitarization and a neutral state.
FROM: @[email protected] I’ve answered this before. Copypastaing myself.
Also, Ukraine really does have a fascism problem and has for a long time, and the coup government has materially supported it.
Lol, as an Asian person it’s always hilarious to me that modern Russians like to think of themselves as non-western. Despite the fact that Russias expansion east was one of the largest acts of genocidal colonial expansions in human history, and they continue utilizing their asianic population as second class citizen cannon fodder. This is some that “Eurasian” ethno nationalist bullshit Putin is obsessed with.
Ahh yes, I know my government treats me horribly, but I’m sure it’s best for the Ukrainian people. Let’s do anti-imperialism by doing imperialism.
It’s funny how people utilize global systems theory without understanding that the theory doesn’t encompass movements like anti-imperialism. According to global systems theory there is no such thing as anti-imperialism, as it’s just capitalist countries duking it out to become the new imperial core.
“There are today no socialist systems in the world-economy any more than there are feudal systems because there is only one world system. It is a world-economy and it is by definition capitalist in form.” -Immanuel Wallerstein
Now I’m not saying that’s correct, but I’m also not utilizing a system that precludes anti-imperialism to justify my imperialism.
All of this is basically the academically dishonest fantastical fiction of Russian nationalism. “I sure do hate Putin’s domestic policy, now let me just praise his ethno national babbling for the next two pages”. Trust me bro, the revolution is coming as soon as we’re the new imperial core.
“Capitalism has grown into a world system of colonial oppression and of the financial strangulation of the overwhelming majority of the people of the world by a handful of “advanced” countries. And this “booty” is shared between two or three powerful world marauders armed to the teeth”…"who involve the whole world in their war over the sharing of their booty.”
You completely glossed over the fact that Ukraine broke two agreements on militarization and neutrality w NATO. You ignored the fact that Nazis/far-right nationalists have taken over the government entirely during that point with the aid of U.S institutions, violating the agreements in place. Separatists rise up, obviously dissatisfied with the direction of the country at the hand of right-wing nationalists who were banning the russian language (Whom a chunk of the country speaks) and banning opposition parties later on. Ukraine responds by cleansing and bombing the region entirely right on the borders of Russia right after breaking multiple agreements to which I fucking cited and gave you multiple sources on everything I am speaking right not from Davel.
It’s literally not imperialism. It’s interventionism, sure, but it’s intervening on a literal nascent fascist state proxy on their borders who broke multiple agreements already. You ignored that as well. Who is being “academically dishonest” here especially when you should know that “imperialism” isn’t when big nation fight small nation. Imperialism is better defined by the fact the United States has an economic stranglehold and hegemony on most of the third world and a military alliance with the developed nations who engage in that exploitation as well. Who has more military bases all over the world? Who controls trade? Who acts as the “World’s Police”? Who has the most incarcerated people in the world?
It’s not Russia, lmao.
By the fact that they’re fighting against that hegemony, they are being “anti-imperialist”. They aren’t seeking to become a new “core” in this instance because of what I mentioned above and in what you replied to that you ignored most of. Will they in the future? Likely, but most of us support China in that sense rather than the kinda support we hand Russia. By the way, most of us critically support Russia. We don’t think they’re actually gonna bring a “revolution” or any bullshit like that. Most of us just support the curb-stomping of nazi into the ground as always and the decay of the “core” in entirety.
America locked in this, with Israel, with China gives less pressure on exploited nations and a chance for them to break away from U.S hegemony. We are seeing this with BRICS. Liberation becomes possible and the Empire will grow weaker without territories to extract from as the nations are allowed to develop free from extraction. As for China? That would be great if they would take the “core”. No doubt they have problems, as all actually existing socialism does. I’m curious to see your criticisms of China, then.
“agreement signed in 1997 between Ukraine and Russia, which fixed the principle of strategic partnership, the recognition of the inviolability of existing borders, and respect for territorial integrity and mutual commitment not to use its territory to harm the security of each other. The treaty prevents Ukraine and Russia from invading one another’s country respectively, and declaring war.[4] Due to the beginning of the Russo-Ukrainian War in 2014, Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko signed a decree not to extend the treaty on 19 September 2018.[5] The treaty consequently expired on 31 March 2019.[6][5]”
Or the Budapest Memorandum, where "The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine. "
Lol, nothing you have posted would lead me to believe that’s actually true.
Sure, the little green men were totally ukranian separatist and not Igor girkin…
Also, yeah when a country invaded you and kills a bunch of your civilians, there’s going to be a bunch of reactionary nationalism.
Russia has its fair share of nationalist Bull shit too.
Lol, cleansing? There have been multiple investigations that have proved there was more violence coming from “separatist” than ukranian.
Lol, you sound just like America!
I see, so only the imperial core can do imperialism… Everything else is just sparkling intervention. So Germany didn’t do any imperialism when they took half of Europe because England was the hegemony of the day? Imperial Japan didn’t do imperialism because they were a peripheral country?
I’m not defending American imperialism… Yeah, they are imperialist, but just because they are a source of human misery doesn’t mean they have an absolute monopoly of violence. It doesn’t mean there can’t be a Nazi Germany and a Japanese empire.
Only if you completely change the understanding of imperialism to the point where you don’t have a definition that isn’t just America.
Because it a laughable and ignorable point…
By regurgitating their propaganda?
Ukraine isn’t filled with a bunch of Nazi… Like any western nation, including Russia, there are reactionary idiots who hate communist and love fascist. That doesn’t mean the entire country is fascist neonazi, the fact that you think there is mind-blowing considering how many ukranians fought the Nazi.
Or, it just creates more and more war because people keep supporting far right governments.
I don’t think people understand that global system theory is just theory, and a theory entirely dependent on the continuation of capitalism. If you actually believe in a hegemony as it’s written in global systems theory, then it precludes the chance a country like China will ever overthrow it with anything other than another capitalist hegemony.
I don’t like that their SOC are profit seeking entities being ran like private equity?
You’re a fucking idiot.
“Lol nothing you posted would actually make me believe that is true”
You ignored 10+ sources (variety of them too; we got western media, aljazeera, grayzone, etc), two infographics (one that was showing purely the demographic split in Ukraine to back up materially what I said as the material conditions that began the outbreak/seperatists) and a personal account from someone in Russia using the good ol’ “Da Russian is just making up excuses! I’m Asian so I can speak on Russians like I’m an expert, I find them funny!” (heavily paraphrasing of course but you aren’t actually comprehending anything I’m saying or something is firing wrong up there) which makes me question your feelings on Russians as a whole.
“Sure, the little green men were totally ukranian separatist and not Igor girkin…” Yeah, none of this happened before “little green men” were being reported on by Western media at all. Once again, proof you didn’t read what I said.
“Russia has its fair share of nationalist Bull shit too.” Critical support. What is it? You seemingly cannot understand the concept. We don’t support their nationalist bullshit or their government but solely their anti-imperialist actions against the largest hegemony. Second time I’ve repeated this.
“Lol, cleansing? There have been multiple investigations that have proved there was more violence coming from “separatist” than ukranian.”
Burden of proof. I offered sources, citations, etc. Where is yours on this now? Seems like a very specific, easy to find study. Where is it? I offered multiple citations, I expect multiple. Giddy up.
“I see, so only the imperial core can do imperialism… Everything else is just sparkling intervention. So Germany didn’t do any imperialism when they took half of Europe because England was the hegemony of the day? Imperial Japan didn’t do imperialism because they were a peripheral country?”
No. You need to re-read what I said and definitely read some Lenin if you’re gonna have bouts with communists. You have no idea what I’m even talking about while ignoring half of it. We don’t have the same definition of “imperialism” not that trying to explain it would matter. We are in the late stage of capitalism. Colonialism and imperialism have taken on new forms. Kings and queens are dead, the church is no longer in power. There is no new “fronts” to exploit, only nations to control and extract from. The more modern history of interventions in Latin America, control of North Africa and Vietnam by the French (their actions in Africa to this day) and how long England held onto it’s colonies are examples of that.
On top of that, you also are repeatedly ignoring my point that it was indeed an intervention: see below.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/cia-ukraine-russia cia.gov/readingroom/docs/AERODYNAMIC VOL. 1_0113.pdf
“Within days of the February 2014 Euromaidan Revolution that culminated with the ouster of President Viktor Yanukovych and ushered in a firmly pro-Western government, the newly appointed head of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU), Valentyn Nalyvaichenko, reportedly proposed a “three-way partnership” with the CIA and MI6, the UK’s foreign intelligence service. Ukrainian security officials gradually proved their value to the U.S. by feeding the CIA intelligence on Russia, including “secret documents about the Russian Navy,” leading to the establishment of CIA bases in Ukraine to coordinate activities against Russia and various training programs for Ukrainian commandos and other elite units.”
You’re literally brain-dead if you think western intervention hasn’t been going on in Ukraine before Maidan/leading up to Maidan and before even separatists and “little green men”. Not to mention the worlds leading hegemony’s intelligence agency has a fucking history of this. Literally in almost every nation. Operation Gladio, for example. Normally, there would be no proof or very little proof in declassified documents but if you’re going to ignore a C.I.A asset being placed into the new government days after it’s inception and also ignore the fact that they literally invited the intelligence apparatus in then I literally cannot help you understand a single thing I’m saying. You have three other stupid fucking idiots who agree with this stupid shit. Combine that with right-wing nationalist take-over that HISTORICALLY was the kind of organization the C.I.A funded (Contras, for example) you would have reasonable conditions for separatists to revolt. Even if they did do “more damage” why the fuck would I care when they’re fighting against a C.I.A-backed right-wing nationalist government? Like are you listening to yourself?
“I’m not defending American imperialism… Yeah, they are imperialist, but just because they are a source of human misery doesn’t mean they have an absolute monopoly of violence. It doesn’t mean there can’t be a Nazi Germany and a Japanese empire.”
They do have a monopoly on violence because America has the most military bases around the world, has the largest record of interventions/military actions (compared to the one Russia is being demonized for) and completely controls the financial levers of most of the world through the petrodollar. Russia is in Syria and Africa with small mercenary contingents/PMC groups. America has literal military bases strapped with fighters, bombers and garrisons in almost every country. Sometimes multiple. A good chunk right on the border of “domestic enemies”. You saying there “can’t be a nazi germany or japan” too is essentially graying out the scales of actual, material power these nations have. Russia isn’t nearly as big of a threat as the United States. The United States has a far larger death toll on it than Russia has. Iraq, Afghanistan, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Latin American interventions; I can keep going! But yeah, we should really be vexing over Russia right now and condemning them instead of seeing Ukraine for what it actually is.
You’re regurgitating their propaganda and taking their views established by the U.S State department. There is no “critical support”. You really believe everything the U.S and Ukraine says about Russia, don’t you? I have yet to see a difference.
“Only if you completely change the understanding of imperialism to the point where you don’t have a definition that isn’t just America.”
Unironically what you’re doing as you’ve seemingly never read Lenin. You’re on a Marxist-Leninist board. Your definition of Imperialism is rooted, repeatedly by what you type, in the definitions of mid-1800s geopolitics. We use Lenin. It’s fine not to believe in it, but I can actually ignore what you say on imperialism because you aren’t even engaging with what the actual theory says. Which is something I see repeating; I will engage with you and actually talk your points down and explain my positions further. You repeatedly have gone “Nuh-uh. Nope. What sources? I don’t believe them.” in out-right rejection. Typical liberal left-com bullshit.
“By regurgitating their propaganda?”
What propaganda? Every nation has propaganda. Some of it is more true than others. Let me guess, you think China is a giant sweatshop of a gorillion billion people all slaving away to make iphone? Yeah, propaganda. Yeah, typical left-com position. Do you understand how their economy works? Their provincial system?
“Ukraine isn’t filled with a bunch of Nazi… Like any western nation, including Russia, there are reactionary idiots who hate communist and love fascist. That doesn’t mean the entire country is fascist neonazi, the fact that you think there is mind-blowing considering how many ukranians fought the Nazi.”
My person in Christ they removed Lenin statues and replaced them with Bandera. I pointed out western intervention. notfromkaliningrad pointed out how they banned communist parties and the Russian language. There are slews of pictures, from BOTH sides of Ukrainian soldiers having Nazi tattoos beyond just “Azov”. The difference between Russia and Ukraine on that part is that one group of Nazis has support from the global hegemon’s intelligence agency. The other is a PMC group that got liquidated. Sure is a difference in how they treat them; not that Russia is justified either. Once again, critical support. Something you keep tossing to the side.
"Or, it just creates more and more war because people keep supporting far right governments.
I don’t think people understand that global system theory is just theory, and a theory entirely dependent on the continuation of capitalism. If you actually believe in a hegemony as it’s written in global systems theory, then it precludes the chance a country like China will ever overthrow it with anything other than another capitalist hegemony."
Because China isn’t a capitalist country; the entire private industry is completely locked in and guarded by a literal vanguard party that controls the profit-seeking for the building of productive forces to serve national interests. Dictatorship of the proletariat. That is why their people are experiencing monumental increases in quality of life in the past 50-60 years compared to the United States and are leading in academic submissions/technological standards compared to the west as well as manufacturing. Their economy continues to grow and has been growing for years straight with only small hiccups. Do you know what Dengism is?
Lol, because they aren’t supportive of your argument. It’s always the same tactics, just add an overwhelming amount of titles that seem to support your argument and hope the person doesn’t actually read them.
When you do actually read the sources, which I doubt you have, as several of them are broken… They don’t actually support the overall argument. The first source is a great example. You are claiming that there is a huge neonazi problem, when in reality the article reports that the far right party wasn’t even able to get the needed 5% of votes to become part of their parliament. Which is ironic, because Russias far right party has nearly 8% of the vote.
Other articles are critical of some of Ukraine’s far right treatment of lgbtq community, which is valid. However, it’s still a step up from Russia where it’s fucking illegal.
Lol, I guess I hit a nerve with the whole not being white thing. What I said is that I think it’s funny they consider themselves eastern… I think being actually eastern may have something to do with that.
So if it didn’t happen before Girkin… Then that should leave you to believe Girkin may have had something to do with it? Or do we just not follow logic anymore?
Haven’t really heard anything critical… You’re just supporting nationalist propaganda whole heatedly.
Again, what theory leads you to believe that supporting right winged nationalist is an act of anti-imperialism? Are you coming up with this yourself? Any leftist philosopher or historical accounts that support this view?
Lol, you offered a small article that didn’t mention ethnic cleansing. Claiming things like burglary and political kidnapping were equivalent to ethnic cleansing.
But here ya go “Following the invasion, Ukraine brought a case before the International Court of Justice (ICJ) to challenge Russia’s accusation. During the proceedings of Ukraine v. Russian Federation, the ICJ said it had found no evidence of genocide. The International Association of Genocide Scholars also rejected Russia’s accusation.[2] Further reports by 30 legal and genocide scholars warned that Russia’s accusations are part of the “accusation in a mirror” technique, ultimately revealing the Russian incitement to commit genocide against Ukrainians”.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_v._Russian_Federation_(2022)
In the references, there’s about 25 different sources you are free to pick through.
Lol, Ive read plenty of lenin. Just because I disagree with your interpretation of how to fight against imperialism doesn’t mean I can the a socialist.
Yeah, something that come across quite a bit with arm chair communist is that their definition of imperialism changes based on their immediate need.
Lenins definition of imperialism actually included a competition of the great powers, leading to the domination of their less economically advanced neighbors. Which describes the situation in Ukraine pretty well to me.
Now please, tell me about the definition of imperialism that precludes imperial competition, or that flames there is only one great nation.
Lol, this is the article that causes multiple people to quit this particular think tank because "Cirincione said he “fundamentally” disagrees with Quincy experts who “completely ignore the dangers and the horrors of Russia’s invasion and occupation and focus almost exclusively on criticism of the United States, NATO, and Ukraine”.
The article is proposing that a gladios style CIA project from the 40’ is basically responsible for installing the new government. In reality the nationalist party that that project did support isn’t even popular, it literally only got 1.6% of the vote in 2019.
And you are brain dead to think that Russia hasn’t been intervening in their government and economics since the country came into independence.
Just because the CIA has officers basically everywhere doesn’t mean that they are responsible for everything that happens in the country. It’s pretty easy to imagine why ukranians wanted to eid themselves of Russian oligarchs controlling so much of their means of production.
Lol, again. I said total monopoly. The fact that you admit Russia is doing the same but on a smaller scale is my point. I can admit they are both horrible, while you are stuck defending imperialism.
Also if America has complet control of the financial levers of the entire world the Russian economy wouldn’t be able to go on the war front.
Not to mention the separatist colonies they’ve been militaraly supporting all over eastern Europe…
And that is bad… therefore another great power doing the same to economically disadvaged countries is…also bad.
Why would I even critically support a right winged nationalist country? My support goes to the people defending their homeland from an invasion that’s killed tens of thousands of people.
Plus, it’s not like many countries have really whole heatedly defended the reasons behind Russias invasion anyways.
Lol, lenin didn’t talk about imperial cores or a conflict with an overwhelming hegemony that validates empowering right winged nationalist. His definition literally talks about competition between Great nations duking it out to exploit less powerful countries.
You need to read some lenin yourself it seems.
And liberals in America tore down statues of the Confederacy… Does that mean America’s no longer racist? There are better metrics to measure the popularity of right winged extremists, you are ignoring them because it suits your narrative.
And there are plenty of Russian ultras that have the same Nazi tattoos. It’s almost like right winged nationalist reactionary groups are common in post soviet states.
Lol, by that definition both groups have been liquidated.
I don’t think you understand what critical support means…
My dude, I’m not saying that global systems theory is correct. You are. You are utiliIng the theory to promote the idea that any attack on the imperial core is anti-imperialism.
My point is that the person who invented global systems theory doesn’t believe in socialism in regards to global economy. The idea of an imperial core is reliant on all nations participating in global trade with self interest being the number one priority.
Behold, the lemm.ee banger with some mild undertones of racism (“I’m Asian so I find this part of Russians funny and can speak on them confidently…”) and the assumption that Imperial Russia somehow transcended through the Soviet Union into the Federation. Some truly giga-lib shit I’d like to point out again that got you 4 seal-claps. Where does it mention that in World-Systems Theory?
The Soviet Union had some ecological disasters, that is for sure; but the conditions for Mongolians, Buryat, etc materially improved under their rule. Imperial Russia? Yeah no. There’s a reason the Bolsheviks came to power. But yeah it’s just all the same, right? Is that another thing you find “funny” about Russians? As for the Federation, no fucking shit. They’re nationalists. Why would they think of themselves non-western but draft/view eastern-territory soldiers as more expendable? Are you listening to yourself? Most of us support the Soviet Union and learned from it’s failures, support China; critically support Russia only in it’s fight against the global hegemony.
Where the fuck do you get this stuff? It’s a federation of multiple territories. Do you really think Moscow thinks of itself as non-western? Are you okay?
Lol, ahh yes. I forgot that only white people are allowed to dictate who and who isn’t Asian… It’s not like the only time Russia has ever been significant in Asia’s history is when they are invading an asian country.
That would be a valid rebuttal if Russia chauvinism hadn’t been present in all three governments. That’s like saying that America isn’t to blame for the crimes of the Confederacy because they created their own constitution.
Lol, so you don’t even know where the idea of imperial core or peripheral states comes from? This is the problem with people learning leftism from YouTube, you don’t realize where these concepts came from and how people are purposely misinterpreting them.
Whereas Vladimir Lenin had supported and implemented policies of korenizatsiia (integration of non-Russian nationalities into the governments of their specific Soviet republics),[4] Joseph Stalin reversed much of the previous policies,[4] signing off on orders to deport and exile multiple ethnic-linguistic groups brandished as “traitors to the Fatherland”, including the Balkars, Crimean Tatars, Chechens, Ingush, Karachays, Kalmyks, Koreans and Meskhetian Turks, with those, who survived the collective deportation to Siberia or Central Asia, were legally designated “special settlers”, meaning that they were officially second-class citizens with few rights and were confined within small perimeters.[8][4]
Lol, so now you’re agreeing with me? My god, flip floping like a dying fish.
So by critical support, you mean only criticize after defending all their propaganda for hours.
My problem is that there is no evidence to support the idea that fighting the hegemony by supporting right wing governments actually does anything to support leftist causes. Seems like we’re just causing the death and misery of poor people who end up being the actual victims.
Lol, who’s political core has always been run by Europeans, mostly in 2-3 cities all in western Russia.
Lol, yes. Russian nationalist are attempting to label themselves as Eurasian, so they can make claims about western chauvinism, pretending like they aren’t part of the problem.
Proxy and ally, gotta distinguish between those two on some level here, I would say; if only to make a point about the differences between mutual benefit and a predatory relationship. Anti-imperialist people in Russia are aligned with anti-imperialist people in China for good material reasons, but are still distinct peoples, cultures, and interests outside of that allegiance to the same anti-imperialist fight. Ukraine has no good reason to be allying with the US and throwing its people to their deaths, in order to fight Russia; its an act of destroying itself upon Russia in a way that only benefits its masters, not itself. The two have tried to broker peace before and had the west sabotage it.
Unless you want to argue allyship between western neo-nazis and Ukrainian neo-nazis, then I guess you could say there’s some kind of allying? But clearly, then, not the kind of allying a person would want to be endorsing.
it really is